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Old 12-02-2013, 18:29   #286
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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‘The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right.’
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‘Good advice is something a man gives when he is too old to set a bad example.’
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Well put. I'll stop pushing the idea of a 15,000 lb power cat on GG. It is just I wanted her to be the master of her vessel in the shortest time.
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Old 12-02-2013, 18:53   #287
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

That power cat you keep pushing is a great boat for many of us 2 person cruising teams. But its really so far off from what she wants and needs for her huge family. It appears she wants a condo like area to live in, so its similar to a land lifestyle. Many couples set off in way smaller vessels with several kids and do a RTW or extended cruising. If most here with kids waited until they had a huge vessel, they would never go. She's looking to live comfy, not be a world voyager, although she wants the option. She wants a rich guys boat, and she may have piles of money, but it just sounds like she's still not completely informed to possible fuel burn and what routine repairs will cost. People buying 100,000# boats dont come to the net for super basic info.
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Old 12-02-2013, 19:17   #288
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

As far as fuel mileage is concerned, a few years ago I delieverd a 77ft 100+ ton vessel with a 1920s direct reversable Atlas diesel engine from Alaska to Columbia, the average speed over all was 9.7 knots for the trip. It burned an average of 4.4 gals per hour!! Now this vessel held over 3000 gals of fuel, so makeing long trips would be a snap ! LOL but talk about handleing in a harbor, or a docking is TOUGH!!LOl and Ive been doing it a heck of a lot longer then I like to remember!! To me most any Capt should be able to handle a 60, 70, 80 ft boat with twin engines and a couple of good deck hands to handle lines he should be able to put it where he wants it !!I could and I know Deck Officer bob could do it also and a bunch of other folks on here could do the same ! we learned Im sure if she wishs to she will be able to learn also !! I hope she gets it together and lets us know what and where !!
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Old 12-02-2013, 20:37   #289
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Barpilot,

That is why I've been suggesting the PDQ 34 at 15,000 lbs. Care to add your take on blue water capable boats that are this light?
Not being a fan of cats, I'm not qualified to comment on the PDQ 34. I was aboard one in Deltaville a couple of summers ago. Nice boat for a cruising couple with occasional guests aboard. However, GG plus 4 kids and maybe the mother and father. Are you kidding me? When we delivered the Flemming 55 there were 6 of us aboard and were cramping each others style at times during the trip.
GG, if there really is such a person, is WAY over her head and yet people of this board keep encouraging her. To me, it's got to bring into question the experience level of the board members. My father (and grandfather, for that matter) were ship captain. My father spent the last 22 years of his working life as a San Francisco Bar Pilot. He didn't start out with a boat the size of the one this woman is talking about. He started out as a deck hand running ferry boats from Vallejo, CA to Mare Island, eventually skippered one. Then moved up to Red Stack Tug Boats in San Francisco, became a captain there, then moved up to ships as a deck officer, then captain, and finally a Bar Pilot. Those of us in recreational boating (most of us anyway) work our way up to bigger and bigger boats. We don't go out and buy the QEII. I believe in the saying "Live your dream, don't dream your life." You just have to begin somewhere, but not at the top. The waterways are already full of people piloting boats that should have been denied a drivers license to get to the marina.
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Old 12-02-2013, 20:43   #290
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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I know this is apples and oranges, but the Dutch government thought Laura Dekker didn't have the maturity or skill set to sail solo around the world at the tender age of 13. In reality the government had no idea how well versed Laura was in seamanship (she has a 6th sense, better than most all sailors), or how well she does on her own. They kept her from leaving for a year, but once she got off she proved all the naysayers wrong and continues to display her sailing skills in her new homeland of New Zealand.

I'm not comparing the sailing and seamanship skills of Laura vs GG, as there is no comparison but rather the mind set of naysayers. I come from more training than most everyone on the forum, but in a small boat would defer to Laura's skill set if the chit was hitting the fan. There is no reason that whatever boat GG decides on, she will learn its systems, how to deal with sea states, and everything else to be a competent skipper of her boat.

As GrowleyMonster mentioned about strong willed women, they are going to do what they want, so either help or stay clear, this is what GG wants to do.
Deck Officer, I see the CMA quoted as part of your licensure. Is that the California Maritime Academy where my father used to teach radar on some of his sabbaticals?
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Old 12-02-2013, 20:51   #291
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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There seems to be a double standard in this thread as some have perhaps taken the OP’s title of being ‘Overwhelmed’ as permission to doubt her abilities.
[/I]
The narrative of being overwhelmed is unfortunate, but it was how the OP framed the discussion.

Most of us know that an overwhelmed skipper should not serve as master of a vessel over 100 tons.

The question of there being a double standard here is troubling. That brings gender into the conversation. Would we be equally concerned if GalaxyGirl was GalaxyGuy?

Many would. Some would not. For my part, I would never advise someone to begin his/her boating career with a vessel over 100 tons.

That's just goofy.
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Old 12-02-2013, 20:53   #292
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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You assume she will be US based?
I reckon most other places in the world would not require a captain as such.


Again, the above comment applies.
A sensible owner not on a time schedule would not bring their boat in if conditions were not favourable.
What size boat are you talking about? I see no mention yet of what it is she has supposedly bought.
True
So what.
A few years ago I took a 50ft cray boat to Vanuatu, it ran a single 6lxb Gardner at 8 knots using 8lph burning around $250 a day.
What I was pointing out, and you seemed to miss, was the price of fuel is not going down. What we all did a few years ago was cheaper than it is today.
As far as bringing a boat into a slip in "favorable" conditions, I see twin screw power boats, equipped with additional bow and stern thrusters and an experienced person at the helm, have one hell of a time at a fuel dock when the wind was maybe 10kts and a current of 2-3 kts have a hell of a time. Of course your VAST experience may be different. It's like a diet, your results may vary.
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Old 12-02-2013, 21:03   #293
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Deck Officer, I see the CMA quoted as part of your licensure. Is that the California Maritime Academy where my father used to teach radar on some of his sabbaticals?
Yes, it is California Maritime Academy. I was the lucky class that as a freshman got to sail on the old steam turbine Golden Bear and as a senior on the current medium speed diesel Golden Bear.

Bob, those were some respectable burn numbers for such a heavy vessel. My guess would be a very long stroke, slow diesel, swinging the biggest prop that could fit at a very slow rpm. Care to elaborate, I'm all ears?

As to GG wanting such a large and heavy trawler, no I'm not one of the members pushing for that. A 34' @ 15,000 lbs with twin screw spacing of 12' would allow her to maneuver with finesse that would belie her short experience.
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Old 12-02-2013, 21:15   #294
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Yes, it is California Maritime Academy. I was the lucky class that as a freshman got to sail on the old steam turbine Golden Bear and as a senior on the current medium speed diesel Golden Bear.

Bob, those were some respectable burn numbers for such a heavy vessel. My guess would be a very long stroke, slow diesel, swinging the biggest prop that could fit at a very slow rpm. Care to elaborate, I'm all ears?

As to GG wanting such a large and heavy trawler, no I'm not one of the members pushing for that. A 34' @ 15,000 lbs with twin screw spacing of 12' would allow her to maneuver with finesse that would belie her short experience.
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Just because I would like to know, what are you doing professionally now? I would hope that you didn't waste your CMA education. Looking back 50 plus years later, I wish I hadn't turned down the appointment I was granted to CMA for the freshman class of '62. I wasn't really smart enough to get in, but then all it took was a call from my father to the commandant.
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Old 12-02-2013, 21:30   #295
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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What I was pointing out, and you seemed to miss, was the price of fuel is not going down. What we all did a few years ago was cheaper than it is today.
And you seem to have forgotten about the cost of masts, wire, terminal fittings, sailcloth, winches, labour etc etc.
Are those things coming down in price?
In Australia for a boat the size the OP is after they could cost well over $100,000 on a new build and they do wear out.
Also, they are not required for the powered vessel.
But the money does buy a lot of fuel.
Especially if on a fuel efficient vessel as has been pointed out several times in this thread and is also in the link in my signature.
Quote:
As far as bringing a boat into a slip in "favorable" conditions, I see twin screw power boats, equipped with additional bow and stern thrusters and an experienced person at the helm, have one hell of a time at a fuel dock when the wind was maybe 10kts and a current of 2-3 kts have a hell of a time.
Sounds to me that these are not favourable conditions for that vessel.
Or they were inexperienced operators on that particular vessel

Perhaps no wind and a slack tide would suit them better.

Quote:
Of course your VAST experience may be different.
All I know is that I have in the past sat behind an island for a week at a time waiting for the weather to abate before entering a marina berth/fuel dock and putting my boat and others at risk.
I imagine if the OP is really cruising and not on a time frame that they could do the same.

ADD: I should point out that I am not cheering on the op's desire to buy and plod around in 50 -60 -70+ foot of boat without appropriate experience either.
I've seen enough out of control operators on the water as it is.
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Old 12-02-2013, 21:34   #296
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

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Deckofficer
Just because I would like to know, what are you doing professionally now? I would hope that you didn't waste your CMA education. Looking back 50 plus years later, I wish I hadn't turned down the appointment I was granted to CMA for the freshman class of '62. I wasn't really smart enough to get in, but then all it took was a call from my father to the commandant.
That is how it still is along with GPA and SAT. I had a letter of recommendation from a Radio Officer when they were still required. I was at CMA in my mid 40's, a bit of adjustment locking up my home and living on campus as it was required then. Also being told by an upperclassman young enough to be my son, that my belt buckle wasn't shiny enough was an adjustment.

I didn't get to sail on my license for as long as I had planned because of my 93 year old dad needing care, but he was a good father to me and what comes around goes around.

Even if one doesn't have a long career at sea, the education from CMA is never a waste. There were two truly stand out instructors I was lucky enough to have, and the overall maritime education was very complete.
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Old 12-02-2013, 21:35   #297
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Bob, it was a Atlas Imperial, made in Oakland CA. in 1929. Yes long stroke slow speed 210 to 220 RPM makes a whisper out the stack! Ya just need to watch the exaust temps and tweek the cyls to make em all even and at good temps! Run for ever, if maintained!! Great engines ! just a pain as all direct reversable diesels are That stopping them and changeing the cam from forward to reverse, take a little getting used to LOL very fuel stingy tho
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Old 12-02-2013, 21:36   #298
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

O, and a 60 in wheel with a 42 in pitch
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Old 12-02-2013, 21:42   #299
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Thanks Bob, that is what I figured. The container ships I sailed on were the same, direct drive, max rpm 118, and stopping, changing cam timing and restarting in astern. Makes tug assist a welcome crutch.
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Old 12-02-2013, 21:54   #300
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Re: Completely Overwhelmed

Bash… I took the title to be GG’s comment on simply being overwhelmed as a Buyer….nothing more!

The gender part…. if it exists with some members…. is unfortunately the ancient bias of the insecure and uninformed. We all know who makes the best look-outs and watch leaders! ...

I agree the bigger a boat gets, the more costly the captain’s management issues in both safety and economics become.

But ironically, the boat handling is generally easier and more predictable, as their displacement and foot in the water is less affected by short gusts.

As to what makes a good skipper? History is full of supposedly good and experience skippers making tragic mistakes, due to overconfidence. …think Titanic.

GG has only put out a lot of questions and learning scenarios that indicates she knows her present limitations as a captain. But that does not translate into her choice of a big boat as being ‘goofy’.

I tend to judge a person by their last docking (even if it was actually their first) rather than by assumed reputation.

She will need to do the same before she takes command.
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