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Old 24-03-2014, 16:54   #16
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

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Has anyone ever gotten any useful info out of an oil analysis? I've had hundreds and never once ever had a component condemned based on an oil analysis, not once.
Really, that's interesting. Do you think they are kind of useless, or maybe give a false sense of security?

What exactly do are they supposed to reveal anyhow?
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Old 24-03-2014, 17:00   #17
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

In general you can certainly assume the charter boat has been "rode hard and put away wet". Doesnt mean that's an engine killer necessarily. I agree with the transmission concern.
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Old 24-03-2014, 17:01   #18
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

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Really, that's interesting. Do you think they are kind of useless, or maybe give a false sense of security?

What exactly do are they supposed to reveal anyhow?
It would for sure be a negotiating point of say antifreeze or excessive bearing material were found

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Old 24-03-2014, 17:04   #19
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

Oil analysis is useful if you always send in an oil sample at every oil change. The analysis will give you the amount of several different metals in the oil as well as the condition of the oil. If the oil is in very good condition, then you can use this data to extend oil changes, if you notice say that chrome is beginning to trend higher, most likely your getting ring wear for one reason or another. but without trend data it's not a whole lot of use.
My biggest experience is with using it on fleets of helicopters, but all the trucks in the motorpool were sampled as well. Trucks based oil changes off of it and saved the taxpayer quite a lot. But in 20 years of pulling oil samples usually at 25 hour intervals on three different components on 24 helicopters I never once condemned a component based on the results of the analysis.
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Old 25-03-2014, 06:07   #20
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

Yep, oil sampling is not usually a one-time magic bullet. Perhaps an initial analysis would wave you off a specific purchase if something critical showed up the first time (that antifreeze thing, or raw water in the oil, for examples).

Local charters here don't flog their engines, much. The anglers don't have far to go to get to the fishing grounds, but even so... charter captains around here pay attention to fuel burn. A lot! And the party charters are the same way; if the DDs are meant to run at 2100 RPMs (according to DD), then they don't usually exceed that, except maybe for the occasional blow-out, and in fact often run a hundred or two RPMs lower. Using twice as much fuel to arrive 15 minutes early (for example), makes no business sense. Let alone the additional wear and tear which could shorten engine life. These guys are in it for the long haul, and they watch the bottom line closely.

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Old 25-03-2014, 09:27   #21
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

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Really, that's interesting. Do you think they are kind of useless, or maybe give a false sense of security?

What exactly do are they supposed to reveal anyhow?
Most commercial use oil analyses but they are putting hundred/thousand of hour each year on the engine. They basically test the oil to see if the oil needs to be changed and when, and can tell the where condition of the engine over time. You continue over time as the first sample is the base and samples there after are compared to. Being we put so little hour on the Eagle, average over 40/year, I have used oil analyses to see if the oil need to be change. I have gone three years between changes. If you do not put many hours on the engine, they don’t tell you much.

Make sure the engines are start cold and then look at the exhaust as old worn engine will take some time to start, and the exhaust will be black until the engine warms up. The exhaust is white smoke its water which is an indication it has a head problem. White is better than black. If the engines are warm that tells you there is a concern.
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Old 28-03-2014, 15:56   #22
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

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Most commercial use oil analyses but they are putting hundred/thousand of hour each year on the engine. They basically test the oil to see if the oil needs to be changed and when, and can tell the where condition of the engine over time. You continue over time as the first sample is the base and samples there after are compared to. Being we put so little hour on the Eagle, average over 40/year, I have used oil analyses to see if the oil need to be change. I have gone three years between changes. If you do not put many hours on the engine, they donít tell you much.

Make sure the engines are start cold and then look at the exhaust as old worn engine will take some time to start, and the exhaust will be black until the engine warms up. The exhaust is white smoke its water which is an indication it has a head problem. White is better than black. If the engines are warm that tells you there is a concern.
The block heaters had both engines already warm when I arrived. Are these heaters kept on around the clock? Maybe its a winter thing? If the engines are started warm from block heaters, that doesn't count right?
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Old 28-03-2014, 17:00   #23
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

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The block heaters had both engines already warm when I arrived. Are these heaters kept on around the clock? Maybe its a winter thing? If the engines are started warm from block heaters, that doesn't count right?

Block heater?

Is the electric water heater turned on? That can warm an engine.
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Old 29-03-2014, 06:29   #24
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

Are we talking bareboat or crewed charter boat?
- I would expect a bareboat to have the engine run ligher but stupid mistakes more likely to have damage.
- A crewed boat is more likely to have been run hard but fuel costs will tend to moderate that. It's less likely to have had stupid mistakes damage things as the crew is familiar
- Of course, there can be exceptions for any of these scenarios.
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Old 29-03-2014, 07:44   #25
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

I took possession of my boat last June after 7 years in charter. I found the boat and the engine to be in overall good shape, much better than many non charter boats I've seen for sale. In the 100+ hours of engine use after receiving the boat, (trip back to U.S.) I never saw any signs of engine problems.

The problem I know is quite common to ex-charter boats is not the engine, but the fuel. Being used for short periods in protected water, dead algae and other contaminates often settle to the bottom of the tank and rest their harmlessly. When the boat comes out of charter and is sailed for long days in rougher seas, this can come free, clogging fuel filters. I think the polishing done by the charter companies before turning the boats over is often inadequate. I ran into several people with boats recently out of charter who ran into this problem.

Obviously, any used boat, ex-charter or not should be inspected and surveyed for potential problems.
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Old 29-03-2014, 18:37   #26
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

GG suggestion. I know you are here to learn. If you have not already hooked up with boatdiesel.com you should do it now. Read the articles by Tony Athens about diesel motors and related stuff. You can also find the articles without joining boatdiesel sit at Seaboard marine a California company that deals in diesel motors. You would do well to join the site and read posts and ask questions as necessary. Many of the people who answer the questions are professional mechanics or individuals with above interest and knowledge of marine propulsion. There is very little nonsense or off the track posting at that site it is almost 95% information and help. If you are going to own and live on a large boat with big diesel motors it would be important that you or somebody in the crew have more than a passing acquaintance with the propulsion, stern gear, and exhaust systems. From my experience as a CGAUX vessel safety examiner I can tell you I meet too many people with big boats and little knowledge about the mechanical guts not a particularly safe situation.
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Old 30-03-2014, 15:16   #27
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

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GG suggestion. I know you are here to learn. If you have not already hooked up with boatdiesel.com you should do it now. Read the articles by Tony Athens about diesel motors and related stuff. You can also find the articles without joining boatdiesel sit at Seaboard marine a California company that deals in diesel motors. You would do well to join the site and read posts and ask questions as necessary. Many of the people who answer the questions are professional mechanics or individuals with above interest and knowledge of marine propulsion. There is very little nonsense or off the track posting at that site it is almost 95% information and help. If you are going to own and live on a large boat with big diesel motors it would be important that you or somebody in the crew have more than a passing acquaintance with the propulsion, stern gear, and exhaust systems. From my experience as a CGAUX vessel safety examiner I can tell you I meet too many people with big boats and little knowledge about the mechanical guts not a particularly safe situation.
Ok. Thanks for the suggestion. I will check out the site and read some of the articles. I will also be taking the diesel engine course in Annapolis(all 4 days), probably in May. I'm hoping that will help me somewhat, if I don't leave with a massive headache every day
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Old 30-03-2014, 15:32   #28
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

Thanks everyone for all the great info. I have to decided to pass on the charter boat that I was considering. I don't want to take the chance. Besides, it has been painted and the broker says that it needs paint in a couple areas. I think I'd prefer a boat that hasn't been used publicly and with original gelcoat.
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Old 31-03-2014, 06:31   #29
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

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I will also be taking the diesel engine course in Annapolis(all 4 days), probably in May. I'm hoping that will help me somewhat, if I don't leave with a massive headache every day

From my experience, good courses. Some decent places nearby for lunches, too

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Old 31-03-2014, 09:49   #30
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Re: Charter Boats and engine life

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Ok. Thanks for the suggestion. I will check out the site and read some of the articles. I will also be taking the diesel engine course in Annapolis(all 4 days), probably in May. I'm hoping that will help me somewhat, if I don't leave with a massive headache every day

There is nothing wrong with a boat that has been painted. Gel coat and paints primary purpose is to protect the fiberglass. Besides painting a few areas may not be that big of a deal. Anyway I would not let weather a boat is painted be a major deciding factor.

As for block heaters that depends? If the water and air temp is above 50 degrees, I would request the block heaters be turned off and the engine started cold, not pre heat.

Taking a 4 day diesel class is mostly a waste of time and money unless you plan on doing most of your own maintenance. I never took a course. Better is to find a diesel mechanic you trust and be there to watched and ask questions. Find a diesel mechanic you trust as you will probable need one anyway.
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