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Old 01-05-2013, 22:26   #16
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

Agree with Jim do not cut off roll bar. The spade is wedge shaped at point for a reason it has lead and is weighted also shank is hollow and lighter all to help set. The roll bars on R and M are there to help anchor assume proper set position instead of lead
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Old 01-05-2013, 22:33   #17
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

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Originally Posted by mvelotas View Post
Thanks, Guys, for the fast response! But the bruce seems to give up ground ...slowly and deceptively!!
In my experience, plow-type anchors such as CQR or Delta will be even worse in this regard---giving ground nowhere as slowly as a Bruce.

Since roll-bar anchors won't work with your particular setup, I'd recommend a Spade.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:44   #18
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

At 870hp and 15 tonnes your real problem is going to be keeping the anchor from knocking a hole in your hull.

First thoughts are that going as far oversize as possible with another Bruce may help. From memory they really need to be really big to do any good. The standard powerboat toothpick is probably not going to cut it. Lots of heavier chain maybe with a bigger windlass could also help.

Careful selection of bottom type with lots of chain out and making sure that the location is well sheltered may also help. I've seen big powerboats anchoring with tiny anchors and they've done just fine in a very sheltered spot with a good mud bottom. I haven't seen many Bruces used in anger but the only one that I saw drag was using way too little scope.

Others have pretty well summed up alternatives however it's possible that none of the recommended anchors will fit. However it's also possible that it may not be too difficult or expensive to have a custom mount made up to carry the anchor. May need some creative engineering.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:29   #19
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I am either going with the Spade (steel) or Manson Boss. Roll bar will not work with my now windless. My only concern with the Spade is that it has a removable pin/bolt at the base of the shank. However, they say that that is not the area that load is placed on the anchor, and does not come into play when it counts. Plus, it's made here in FL. (Or distributed) I am noticing in my marina that a lot of boats- both sail and power-have switched to spade, Manson, and rocna. I very much appreciate all of your help, guys. Thanks much! ----(If that damn pin fails on the Spade,, someone come pick me up in Cuba!!!!)
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:47   #20
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

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Originally Posted by mvelotas View Post
I am either going with the Spade (steel) or Manson Boss. Roll bar will not work with my now windless. My only concern with the Spade is that it has a removable pin/bolt at the base of the shank. However, they say that that is not the area that load is placed on the anchor, and does not come into play when it counts. Plus, it's made here in FL. (Or distributed) I am noticing in my marina that a lot of boats- both sail and power-have switched to spade, Manson, and rocna. I very much appreciate all of your help, guys. Thanks much! ----(If that damn pin fails on the Spade,, someone come pick me up in Cuba!!!!)
The pin won't fail, but if you ever take it apart (which you probably won't, since you don't need to stow it), use a new friction nut on the bolt when you reassemble it.

You have not mentioned how much chain you have on your anchor...and you mentioned rode (which colloquially refers to rope, not chain) so I'm assuming you're not going all chain. Any anchor's performance is going to be partially a function of what connects it to your boat...the more chain, the better it's generally going to hold.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:34   #21
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

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My only concern with the Spade is that it has a removable pin/bolt at the base of the shank.
You should never have a problem with the Spade.
The retaining bolt is under very little force and has a nyloc nut and a pin.
I have flown aircraft with a less secure means of retaining the wings.

In the early days it was a nyloc nut only. There was a boat that was severely damaged when the bolt came out and they dragged onto a beach. There was a court case.

Spade claimed the nut was never put put on the bolt and the owner claimed it was assembled correctly.

After the court case spade added the pin.

The only other downside of the spade is the difficulty/impossibility of regalvanisng. The Manson Boss is promising, but there is little independent information. The steel Spade has a proven track record. Most would rate it in the top three at least.
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Old 08-05-2013, 21:04   #22
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

Nothing wrong with the aluminum spade it is especially good in that you can easily up size the anchor with more holding area and not tax your windless. The practical sailor mag. tests used the aluminum unit and it kicked ass in almost every category including setting and bury. No worry about galvanizing. Also you can add more chain to make up for weight diff. The added chain does something the anchor weight does not do. It lowers the can-ternary angle between rode and anchor a very important aspect of holding setting etc.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:49   #23
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I have a Bruce on my boat and have put it to the test in 50 knots 3 times in the last couple of months around Tassie. It has a lot weed seagrass and sand. I must say that the Bruce has not been the easiest anchor to set but once set it has been fine. Now we have moved north we are back in mud the Bruce is great. I am going for a fortress as a spears anchor but if I was in the conditions again we had in Tassie I would use the fortress shackled on 10 meters of chain to the front of the Bruce and then lots of chain. We had one night that was real ugly with 50 knots plus and quite big seas as well at wineglass bay and that was all sand. We were in ten meters water and used 70 meters chains and a 5 meter bridle which takes up shock well.
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Old 10-05-2013, 13:17   #24
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

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Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
Nothing wrong with the aluminum spade it is especially good in that you can easily up size the anchor with more holding area and not tax your windless. The practical sailor mag. tests used the aluminum unit and it kicked ass in almost every category including setting and bury. No worry about galvanizing. Also you can add more chain to make up for weight diff. The added chain does something the anchor weight does not do. It lowers the can-ternary angle between rode and anchor a very important aspect of holding setting etc.

Unfortunately The caternery disappears in stronger wind when you need it most.

I don't think anchor test are an ideal method of evaluating an anchor, at least in isolation, but if you are going to consider them look at a few, and try to select the better tests.
Quite a few are here:
http://manson-marine.co.nz/SitePages...ndept_test.htm

The 2008 yachting monthly test included both the aluminium A80 and the steel S80. The holding power in hard sand was 1052 and 1705 kg respectively.
They also made this comment about the aluminium spade (referring to their earlier anchor test) which fits in with my own observations.

" During our 2003 tests, we found that it had trouble setting in harder types of bottom"

It is a pity the aluminium Spade should be a great anchor, like the seel version, but there is a big and readily apparent difference in the performance especially in harder substrates.
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Old 13-05-2013, 19:25   #25
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

Ok...I ordered the 44# steel Spade. They sized up and said that that size would do just fine. Sure hope so. The damn Bruce I have on now frustrated me to no end this past weekend. Had to reanchor 4 times off Elliott Key in Biscayne Bay!!! Winds were around 15-20kts. Could NEVER SLEEP overbite with this current anchor. Thanks again for all the input. Mike
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Old 14-05-2013, 09:18   #26
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

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Originally Posted by mvelotas View Post
Ok...I ordered the 44# steel Spade. They sized up and said that that size would do just fine. Sure hope so. Mike
Hi Mike,

The Spade is a great anchor and will serve you well. We've tested anchors not far from Elliot Key, just north of there near Fisher Island, and we know the bottoms fairly well.

Be sure to back down on the anchor to be certain that it has penetrated through any grass that might be lurking on the bottom.

Safe boating,
Brian
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Old 14-05-2013, 12:22   #27
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

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Evans I don't understand why you think Spade would set better in hard packed sand (than Boss). The Boss has a much sharper tip, with a flat blade, so it should be able to penetrate better all-else equal. The Spade tip has a triangular cross section, therefore thicker and less able to cut into hard bottoms. It's like comparing the cutting action of a wedge (for log splitting) vs. an axe.
Tip weight. The spade has a lead weighted tip while the Boss has an unweight tip. Our own little testing suggested (I am intentionally using a 'softer' word than proved) that tip weight and tip sharpness were more important than tip 'thickness'.

I will freely acknowledge I have never used a Boss. There might well be something I am overlooking. I respect Manson and am sure the Boss is a quite capable anchor and for the OP it was specifically designed as a 'power boat' anchor.

My concern with the spade has always been the need to melt the lead out (and then back in) if you want to get it regalvanized. Despite the (extremely painful) cost, I personally would lean either toward SS or an ultra if going down this route for that reason.

I think either would do the job, while still leaning slightly toward the spade.
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Old 14-05-2013, 12:35   #28
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

G'Day Evans,

I haven't had a good look at a steel spade for a while so may be out of order with this...

But for this anchor, and for CQRs as well, why can not one weld a thin steel plate over the lead ballast area, enclosing it so that it can not melt and run out whilst re galvoing?

Seems quite practical as a thought experiment... is there some practical reason it wouldn't work?

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 14-05-2013, 13:46   #29
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

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G'Day Evans,

I haven't had a good look at a steel spade for a while so may be out of order with this...

But for this anchor, and for CQRs as well, why can not one weld a thin steel plate over the lead ballast area, enclosing it so that it can not melt and run out whilst re galvoing?

Seems quite practical as a thought experiment... is there some practical reason it wouldn't work?

Cheers,

Jim
I think it is practical to fully encase the lead ballast so it cannot move and it is a pity Spade do not do this.
For full time cruisers anchoring most of the time a galvanised anchor has a life of only 4-5 years or so (unless anchoring just in mud) before it needs regalvanisng.

Spade have introduced a solution involving repainting with zinc rich paint, but its not ideal.
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Old 14-05-2013, 13:53   #30
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Re: Best Overall Anchor for 50' powerboats

Jim

The plate would have to be in intimate contact with the lead (any air space is a no-no, because given the melting point of zinc it makes for the possibility of explosive decompression and boil-over of the zinc from the tank, about which possibility galvanisers are understandably over-vigilant)

Returning to the welding-on of the plate: given such contact, the lead will melt and boil from the heat of fusion of steel, which I'm fairly confident would erupt through the weld pool and ruin any prospects of getting a decent weld.

"Free-machining" steel of certain grades contain a small proportion of lead, and even with this small evenly distributed admixture they are not considered weldable...

One other small point: I'd always believed, as you evidently still do, that CQR anchors had a lead ballasted tip, although I was puzzled to see how that could be so, given that there's no external sign of it.

A thread within recent years on a forum whose identity I forget, but Google should reveal, included advice from Lewmar indicating this had not been the practice within living memory.

I took a copy of the relevant text:

<<The following is the e-mail I received from a Lewmar (Simpson-Lawrence) tech rep on the subject. It suggests that CQRs with a lead tip are the exception.....

It is believed that a very limited number of the very early (pre-Simpson-Lawrence, before they purchased CQR) anchors may have had lead for tip ballast. None of the drawings S-L bought when they acquired the manufacturing rights to the CQR (pre-1982 to my knowledge at least) mention the use of lead. Simpson Lawrence has never produced any CQR anchor at any time no matter the size using lead as weight in the ballast. If somebody has a CQR anchor with lead ballast and it says 'CQR' tell them they have a rare CQR anchor that has not been seen by any of the Simpson Lawrence staff and it is an antique that predates our involvement with these anchors.>>
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