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Old 06-10-2013, 19:00   #16
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

The site isn't letting me reply with a link without being approved by a moderator. What type of hull is a 1990 Mainship 41 Grand Salon? To me it would seem to be a semi-displacement. Like I said I am completely green to think and I am sorry for asking such basic questions.

Another note:
I just got off the phone with my Uncle who is a certified USCG charter Captain. He informed me of "port/anchor fees"...what are these and what do they usually range from?
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:59   #17
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

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Hello,

First off, I would like to say I am as new to this as one could possibly be. I have no experience owning a power yacht and have no pride about thinking I know anything. I am only 29 so I know that I am young and have a lot to learn. I am looking into buying a boat for my wife and I to be able to cruise the Caribbean/gulf coast on when I retire. I have a decent amount of experience being a passenger on a boat but barely any piloting one.
Hi New2Cruise,

You might consider starting with a smaller cruiser, to begin building skills and getting more of an understanding of owning equipping maintaining and cruising your own vessel. We started with a C-Dory 22 Cruiser, cruisng at first on Lake Powell and other big western lakes, then the San Juans and lower British Columbia coast. In a few years we had built the skills and experience to spend a summer in Southeast Alaska on our little cruiser.

For more on this concept, you could take a peek at my book, Cruising in a Big Way". You can read a 28-page preview on the self-publishhing site lulu.com, or a less extensive one on Amazon.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:21   #18
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

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This boat is larger than I had previously stated I was looking at but I like the floor plan and size. This is not the boat I will be getting because I am still a ways from date of purchase but I am trying to get a better idea to narrow my search. Would this type of boat be alright or should I look into trawler style instead?

1990 Mainship 41 Grand Salon Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Probably not alright.

Silverton started making Mainship trawler wannabees in the late '70s (see 34' Mainship, Mainship II, Mainship III) and the company was later spun off as a separate business entity. In the early- to mid-'90s they changed their focus to planing hull boats, including Sedans, Motor Yachts, and that Grand Salon model... then it the late '90s they returned to their trawler-style roots.

Not that you couldn't cruise with that kind of boat, especially if diesel... but if fuel economy is critical, full displacement trawlers and semi-displacement trawler-style boats will do much better. Even so-called "fast trawlers" (mostly a marketing term, often indicating a semi-planing hull and much higher horsepower) will do better, assuming you drive them "fast" very often.

You could run a planing hull slowly, but generally the hull form isn't comfortable in all sea states, especially beam seas. Even trawlers can suffer from roll in beam seas, of course, but various stabilization systems are more commonly available/installed in trawler and trawler-style boats to combat roll.

That said, there are lots of exceptions. Some of the motor yachts, for example, actually have a keel of sorts, and therefore maybe roll less a V-hull motoryacht might. IOW, lots of "it depends."

-Chris
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:23   #19
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

New2Cruise, have a look at our Beach House blog on my signature line. Lots of posts on preparing the boat for cruising and lots more posts of our cruises, including the recent cruise to the Bahamas. Chuck
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:29   #20
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, New2Cruise.

Some references and recommended reading:

The Ideal Passagemaker?

And:
Voyaging Under Power, Beebe/Leishman (McGraw Hill)
Cruising Under Power, Burke (Putnam)
Stapleton's Power Cruising Bible, Stapleton (Hearst Marine Books)
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:50   #21
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

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Not educating yourself on the above hull types before your purchase would be analogous to choosing a person as a spouse with knowing that some people are women and some people are men.
I meant to write "without"

Very sad when someone needs an editor to write a paragraph or two

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Old 07-10-2013, 09:59   #22
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

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Probably not alright.

Silverton started making Mainship trawler wannabees in the late '70s (see 34' Mainship, Mainship II, Mainship III) and the company was later spun off as a separate business entity. In the early- to mid-'90s they changed their focus to planing hull boats, including Sedans, Motor Yachts, and that Grand Salon model... then it the late '90s they returned to their trawler-style roots.

Not that you couldn't cruise with that kind of boat, especially if diesel... but if fuel economy is critical, full displacement trawlers and semi-displacement trawler-style boats will do much better. Even so-called "fast trawlers" (mostly a marketing term, often indicating a semi-planing hull and much higher horsepower) will do better, assuming you drive them "fast" very often.

You could run a planing hull slowly, but generally the hull form isn't comfortable in all sea states, especially beam seas. Even trawlers can suffer from roll in beam seas, of course, but various stabilization systems are more commonly available/installed in trawler and trawler-style boats to combat roll.

That said, there are lots of exceptions. Some of the motor yachts, for example, actually have a keel of sorts, and therefore maybe roll less a V-hull motoryacht might. IOW, lots of "it depends."

-Chris
I really appreciate this feedback, I completely understand what you are saying. Are there any style of boat like those that are full displacement or are we strictly limited to trawler style boats? I do like the trawler style but they seem to be all older and wood from what I've found at least.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:02   #23
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

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Hi New2Cruise,

You might consider starting with a smaller cruiser, to begin building skills and getting more of an understanding of owning equipping maintaining and cruising your own vessel. We started with a C-Dory 22 Cruiser, cruisng at first on Lake Powell and other big western lakes, then the San Juans and lower British Columbia coast. In a few years we had built the skills and experience to spend a summer in Southeast Alaska on our little cruiser.

For more on this concept, you could take a peek at my book, Cruising in a Big Way". You can read a 28-page preview on the self-publishhing site lulu.com, or a less extensive one on Amazon.
I 100% agree with this idea, I am trying to convince my wife that we need to jump in and buy a smaller boat and get use to handling a boat just the two of us. The main issue is that in a year I will be in North Dakota and the boating season is so limited that she is having a problem justifying the purchase.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:09   #24
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

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I meant to write "without"

Very sad when someone needs an editor to write a paragraph or two

Steve
I'm on a lot of 4X4 forums, the people there aren't the most articulate. You got your point across and I understand what you were saying.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:38   #25
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

So I should be looking at something more along the lines of this?

1979 Marine Trader 44 Tri-Cabin Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:43   #26
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

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I really appreciate this feedback, I completely understand what you are saying. Are there any style of boat like those that are full displacement or are we strictly limited to trawler style boats? I do like the trawler style but they seem to be all older and wood from what I've found at least.

I hadn't looked closely at the specs on the Mainship Grand Salon... but I see now there's hardly any info and it says only 1 engine. I'd suspect that's almost certainly wrong...

And I see I meant to type DON"T drive them fast (re: "fast trawlers").

Anyway... have a look at some of these brands/models on yachtworld.com, at first without regard to price or year:
Kadey-Krogen, Mainship (the trawers, e,g., 400, 430, 350, 390, etc.), Grand Banks, Defever, Monk, Albin, Marine Trader, CHB... just to get a feel for the various ways these builders implement the basic cruising design. There are others, certainly, and you can ogle those as you find 'em... but in the meantime, this can help you focus a bit.

There are two basic implementations:

1) "Europa" style (Grand Banks' name for a boat with a large saloon, cockpit as a covered "back porch," boat deck (dinghy storage) aft of the flying bridge helm and over the top of the cockpit, all staterooms forward...

2) Trunk cabin (or aft cabin, or tri-cabin, or sometimes "sundeck") style (this the older more traditional style I think) where one or two staterooms are forward and the master stateroom (usually) is aft, not much cockpit... and the deck above the aft cabin can serve as a boat deck.

If you look at pics and layout diagrams, you can get a feel for each, what kind of layout might suit you... and once you can pin that down a bit it'll get easier to find more and more examples of boats that might fit. That'l also make it easier to talk about the evolution of various models from wood hull/wood deck and house to fiberglass hull/wood deck and hose, to modern fiberglass with inert coring... and so forth. That's where price or model year begins to become more important...

-Chris
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Old 07-10-2013, 16:31   #27
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

Yeah as far as trawlers go I definitely like the Europa style the best. The rear covered swim deck is pretty important to my wife, and I'll need it for scuba diving simplicity.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:35   #28
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

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Yeah as far as trawlers go I definitely like the Europa style the best. The rear covered swim deck is pretty important to my wife, and I'll need it for scuba diving simplicity.

Then you'll likely also want a swim platform and a transom door leading from cockpit to swim platform.

See how easy it is to identify important features? Keep doing that and you'll end up with a hole boat in mind!

How many staterooms? Galley up or down? (Same level as saloon, or same level as staterooms?) Single engine or twin? (I like both, would usually gravitate toward single.) And so forth. Most of the choices should have to do with how you might actually use the boat...

BTW, I looked through the pics of that Mainship Grand Salon; sure enough, it's twin GAS Crusader engines. Not at all the kind of economy you'll likely want for the long term.

-Chris
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:51   #29
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

New2Cruise, As a former Yacht Broker and lonnnng time cruiser, I might offer some advise. Whatever boat you plan to buy, do a simple exercise. Sit in the main salon and ask yourself this question. Where will I put everything I need to live and cruise on this boat? You will find the answer will quickly eliminate a lot of boats you thought you might like. Many are designed to sleep 17 and dine 21, but have no storage to speak of. The older trawler styles often fit long range cruising even if you can't go fast. They are generally more economical fuel wise. Chuck
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Old 08-10-2013, 16:22   #30
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Re: Basic Power Cruising Questions

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Then you'll likely also want a swim platform and a transom door leading from cockpit to swim platform.

See how easy it is to identify important features? Keep doing that and you'll end up with a hole boat in mind!

How many staterooms? Galley up or down? (Same level as saloon, or same level as staterooms?) Single engine or twin? (I like both, would usually gravitate toward single.) And so forth. Most of the choices should have to do with how you might actually use the boat...

BTW, I looked through the pics of that Mainship Grand Salon; sure enough, it's twin GAS Crusader engines. Not at all the kind of economy you'll likely want for the long term.

-Chris
Chris I really appreciate all of the advice you have given.

I think I would prefer the galley on the same level as the saloon, that way my wife isn't shunned to cook when we have people on board.

I do like the fuel economy of a single engine but I am having a hard time with the lack of redundancy in case of a failure. I am in the aircraft business and it is a lot less forgiving if you lost an engine.

I think I will have to get over it though lol. I think fuel economy with a standby outboard is the way to go.
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