Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-07-2013, 07:04   #31
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: Wisdom of the Seas

The above posts have me supposing something that I never thought possible: That because of the changing conditions of the sea, you are never always right. There is no concrete rule, your voyage is always changing because of conditions. Locals may have insight in to what is usually done, and your experience may tell you what usually works, but even the tried and true seaman can be wrong. As someone based in science that just blows my mind.
So the hard and fast rule is this: be always open to change, and be as safe as possible. Maybe the sea will let you by, and maybe not. In spite of all you know, sometimes you do not decide.
__________________

__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 07:08   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,172
Images: 15
Re: Wisdom of the Seas

I learn something every time I go out. That's one of the reasons I like sailing.
__________________

__________________
tamicatana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 07:16   #33
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Wisdom of the Seas

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
As someone based in science that just blows my mind.
Not specifically related to the boats (but probably also does), one thing I have found is that folks who have led a life of being right (or at least been surrounded by folks who have not enlightened them!) can struggle to mentally cope with failure........particularly when their is no "good" solution (when there always has been a solution to be found comes as shock when can only try and mitigate the effects of failure - with no guarantee of even that).

Me not known so many scientists!, so am principally using as an example folks higher up in large organisations..........whereas for those for whom failure is not unknown are not phased simply by the concept - of course no guarantee that will have a better plan B! or that there is one!
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 07:35   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,172
Images: 15
Re: Wisdom of the Seas

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
(snip)As someone based in science that just blows my mind.

As someone also based in science, I can't imagine why. The scientific method is absolutely dependent on the open mind. That's why there is no such thing as fact (in 'REAL' science), only well-supported theory.
__________________
tamicatana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 08:00   #35
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,762
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Wisdom of the Seas

best way to find problems is to sail to a schedule


our only constant is change
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 08:11   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARC D View Post

There is one ''LE COURS DE NAVIGATION DES GLÉNANS''

Great book, emphasize on human relations and limitations...but written in french.
The sailor's bible. I have the French edition, but it is also available in English, as The Glénans Sailing Manual.
I did my first serious sea sailing with Les Glénans, in the 80ies, on boats without engines or electricity...
__________________
K_V_B is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 08:24   #37
Registered User
 
taildragerdrive's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Halfway, Oregon, USA
Boat: Swan, 1968, 36'
Posts: 102
Re: Wisdom of the Seas

Not being an experienced sailor but having spent my entire life working in the forests including fighting forest fires I have found that many things I have learned doing other things can be valuable while sailing.

I learned from forest fire fatality reports that in almost all cases several things have gone wrong that the fire fighters didn't pay attention to, could have saved their life. Many fatal or serious incidents in all kinds of wilderness are the result of a domino effect which if noticed early on can save lives.

This is the general rule that relates to: If you think maybe should reef do it, if you feel uncomfortable going into a harbor against the tide stand off, etc.

So constant vigilance as little things start going wrong that they create for me what is called a "Watch Out Situation".

Also learn from all you do, don't just think in terms of what you have learned at sea, bring all your experience to sea.

Finally one of the most important things I have learned from my father is you will stop learning when you think you know it all. So keep your self humble and let nature and others teach you. File what you learn away and evaluate all that comes in and you will be better equipped to handle what life and the sea throw at you.
__________________
Taildraggerdriver - Flying in the mountains of the west. Sailing/cruising as much as I can.
taildragerdrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 08:26   #38
Registered User
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St Petersburg
Boat: Tartan 33
Posts: 1,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post

As someone also based in science, I can't imagine why. The scientific method is absolutely dependent on the open mind. That's why there is no such thing as fact (in 'REAL' science), only well-supported theory.
The issue is not the science it is the variables. In science one controls the variables. In the real world there exists the high probability of uncontrolled and unexpected inputs....

In construction, utility work and elsewhere this is often referred to in the succinct term.... **** Happens.

Sometimes it is the sea throwing a curve, or the human proving (s)he is human
__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ishmael
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 08:28   #39
Registered User
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St Petersburg
Boat: Tartan 33
Posts: 1,879
Oops forgot... The key is having safeties so that when @@it happens, they don't refer to you as "the late Mr.----"
__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ishmael
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 08:28   #40
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: Wisdom of the Seas

..."Don't think! Thinking confuses you!"... Captain Bligh ordering around Fletcher Christian, in Mutiny on the Bounty.

Mauritz
Simple and Elegant by Design
__________________
Retired - Don't Ask Me To Do A Damn Thing!
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 09:00   #41
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: wisdom of the seas

"Oh, and a GPS / Chartplotter says what you can do (or at least thinks what you can do - mostly it is right. mostly) - but it never tells you what you should do. "

ROTFL -- use it stupidly enough and it will tell you to sail right over that reef!
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 09:03   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 647
Re: Wisdom of the Seas

The boat is always stronger than the beings within. Not sure if that was always true when I think back to the day when iron men sailed wooden ships. A good read is "A Voyage for Madmen" which was about the round the world race back in the late 1960's. Some of the 9 participates had little sailing experience yet all were adaptive and willing to learn. Only one finished and another who would have won the race continued on for a second time around. Those two people(Robin Knox-Johnston and the frenchman, Moitissier) had a love of the sea and accepted and adapted to their surroundings. And to think all of this done in the day prior to GPS.
__________________
lancelot9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 09:03   #43
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Wisdom of the Seas

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
The above posts have me supposing something that I never thought possible: That because of the changing conditions of the sea, you are never always right. There is no concrete rule, your voyage is always changing because of conditions. Locals may have insight in to what is usually done, and your experience may tell you what usually works, but even the tried and true seaman can be wrong. As someone based in science that just blows my mind.
So the hard and fast rule is this: be always open to change, and be as safe as possible. Maybe the sea will let you by, and maybe not. In spite of all you know, sometimes you do not decide.

Well, if you're rooted in science, then you know that the more uncontrolled variables you introduce, the more unpredictable the result will be.

I suspect that a lot of people get into trouble by being too focused on the destination, which can encourage you to do things that maybe aren't the best choice.

I try to be very Zen about it. As Gandolf said, "Not all who wander are lost."
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 09:05   #44
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Wisdom of the Seas

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
As someone also based in science, I can't imagine why. The scientific method is absolutely dependent on the open mind. That's why there is no such thing as fact (in 'REAL' science), only well-supported theory.

It's also dependent on controlling the variables, and you just can't always do that while sailing.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2013, 09:05   #45
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,657
Re: Wisdom of the Seas -- lessons

Hello, everyone,

Going back to Jackdale's post relative to learning stages, I think if one is open to it, that 5th stage, whatever you want to call it, where you've learned lots of the basics, but that cruising is a basically interactive process wherein you are both the experimenter and the subject of the experiment is where you can wind up most of the time: creative competence. A lot's about adapting to the environment...having plans B & C in the back of your mind.

Reconsider how all those beautiful one line posts above came about. Those are all deep lessons, if you've already learned them, the result of processing experience. I loved Zeehag's "Find Problems, sail to a schedule." That's just so true, on so many levels, and concise, too.

Never trust the depths you are told by someone in a canoe...or a yacht drawing less than yourself.

Many ripples on flat water mean more wind's coming.

He who shuns the calm has forgotten the storm. That one's an old sailor's proverb, it's not mine, I just borrowed it.

Practice sailing off the hook, into the anchorage and anchor where you can sail off it, as well. Build those skill sets and keep 'em alive. Because you never know when your engine will suddenly lose all its oil, for instance. [Just a little chafe on an oil line will do it. And boy were we glad we'd done lots of short tacking before, and knew how to make her pay off on the desired tack to get underway when it was tight.]

Ann
__________________

__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thrane and Thrane Fishery Capsat steve.garlick Marine Electronics 10 20-07-2017 10:26
What Can Cause the Sinking of a Sailboat on Open Seas? Mundinho Monohull Sailboats 55 21-06-2013 10:42
Weather Info on Gulfstream Crossing Autumns Wind Weather | Gear, Reports and Resources 8 24-04-2013 06:59
Inmarsat - Receiving Data and Plan Costs dennisail Marine Electronics 44 02-06-2012 04:52



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.