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Old 29-09-2011, 12:16   #91
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Bash's scenario above is pretty common. And, yes, newbs with "stupid questions" can get pretty wound up pretty quick. But, many times that reaction is perfectly justified.
My take is that a fair proportion of the dumb assed newbie dreamer threads (with boat or without) are simply member / former members (and bored Mods? - looking to liven up the world's dullest forum) "enjoying" themselves............either that or one of the Google key search words for CF.com is "Retard"

If the thread throws up something that I figure may be of interest to others then I will chip in - otherwise I ignore. (BTW I don't view every newbie to CF / Sailing as a Troll, but they do get the DOJ duck test ).

The irony is that the better the Troll (and more posts the thread collects) the more likely it is to throw up information that is useful for others, so the only person wasting there time is the OP / Troll. I love a good irony

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I mean for crying out loud...it's sailing. Not rocket surgery.
Except in the Bar
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Old 29-09-2011, 12:33   #92
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

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I mean for crying out loud...it's sailing. Not rocket surgery.
Rocket surgery. I like it. That may well be the best mixed metaphor we've ever had on this forum.
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Old 29-09-2011, 12:34   #93
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

Now that's funny, David Old
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:18   #94
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
My take is that a fair proportion of the dumb assed newbie dreamer threads (with boat or without) are simply member / former members (and bored Mods? - looking to liven up the world's dullest forum) "enjoying" themselves.
Damn.

I am SO busted....
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:21   #95
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

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Damn.

I am SO busted....
Heh-heh. I KNEW it!
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:31   #96
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

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the converse is also true.
why do people ask you for advice, then completely ignore it?

i am a professional.
people ask me a question, i do research, i verify, i experiment, and give
them my best professional answer.
then they ignore it.
waste of my bloody time.

I've gotten some bad advice from outstanding professionals. Whether you're a professional or not, I will double-check what you told me. What is a waste of time to you could become an expense as well as a waste of time to me if I don't double-check it.

One example is the outstanding sailor and marine architect who put headsheets on my boat that were just way too short. I trusted him instead of questioning, and ended up on the water in a world of hurt.

Anyone can make a mistake, even a professional.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:33   #97
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

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As Sarafina pointed out, that's assuming there is one "correct". I don't think that's typically the case. Hence forums and their endless, epic banter.

Here's an example of that. A highly experienced sailor told me with great confidence that I could raise and lower the sails safely if the wind was on the beam -- just push the boom out as far as it will go and use the traveler to angle the sail better into the wind.

Great in theory, but my boat has swept back spreaders (in fairness, she hadn't seen it). You can't push my boom out to 90 degrees.

She was right -- for some boats. For other boats, she was wrong.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:45   #98
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

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I share this concern, Chief. There was a recent thread on the Vessel Not Under Command rule in the Colregs, and one forum member repeatedly was posting incorrect information. His ideas were logical, perhaps even sensible, but they were entirely wrong. Two of the forum advisers and two moderators jumped into the discussion to provide the currect application of this rule, but the forum member with the contrary opinion kept posting and reposting and reposting, as if he thought that if he stuck to his incorrect opinion long enough it would somehow become correct. It became a frustrating conversation for all concerned, especially for a few of our members who are academy-trained professional mariners who have studies the rules of the road in great detail.
I think your take on this is very instructive to the nature of internet debate and debate in general.

I followed that same debate and never felt the argument was about the "correct" application of the ColReg in question, which could have had a solution. It was about the use of a ColReg "incorrectly" having a potentially beneficial effect on someone not following other ColRegs. This interpretation could not possibly have a "correct" answer and therefore was debated ferociously until it petered out.

If you were "advising" someone based on the first interpretation I could see how you could have been frustrated that your and others experience wasn't taken into consideration while those of us who took it more as an ethical dilemma debate found experience with the ColRegs as having little to do with the ethical question posed and therefore found your experience of little value over others who had an opinion on the broader ethical question.

Misunderstanding over the very nature of the question at hand might have a dramatic effect on the answer and the interpretation of whether it is "correct" or not.

Jim
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:42   #99
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

Regarding all of the above...the best advice is only as good as the "best" question. I'm retired now but I once built large steel buildings. If a man had asked me what the best way to roof such a large structure would be, I would have told him to frame the roof on the ground then lift it onto the columns. In my response I failed to ask if he had access to a crane. Shame on me...if he was asking such a question, it should be very apparent to me that he had no idea that he could actually build a roof on the ground. Anytime I give advice I try to make sure that I am answering the right question. ...just ones man view..
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Old 11-10-2011, 20:16   #100
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

When a new person to the forum asks the same old question that has been asked a hundred times such as "what blue water cruiser should I buy", I suggest using the search feature to see other peoples answers to the same question. Strangely, I have had my head bitten of for saying it!...and by some in this thread!
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Old 11-10-2011, 20:34   #101
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
I share this concern, Chief. There was a recent thread on the Vessel Not Under Command rule in the Colregs, and one forum member repeatedly was posting incorrect information. His ideas were logical, perhaps even sensible, but they were entirely wrong. Two of the forum advisers and two moderators jumped into the discussion to provide the currect application of this rule, but the forum member with the contrary opinion kept posting and reposting and reposting, as if he thought that if he stuck to his incorrect opinion long enough it would somehow become correct. It became a frustrating conversation for all concerned, especially for a few of our members who are academy-trained professional mariners who have studies the rules of the road in great detail.
No one was ever able to post "definitive proof" one way or the other in that discussion what was right or wrong...kinda like the check valve and the bilge pump thread where some manufaturers didn't agree with others.

Yet the check valve answer is simple physics and some still would argue because things CAN be done differently and be neither right or wrong.

Credentials don't mean squat...I got them and have been ignored by many for a long time..even before internet forums....most professionals are ignored at times and proven wrong at times.

Heck Columbus proved the flat earth guys wrong and he was on the wrong side of the world! Then to top it off...the US is dumb enough to have a holiday for an error prone guy who discovered the Bahamas...

But I can feel with the Chief...lots of people in the Marine field are a decade behind or off base anyhow...the nature of the Marine business in my experience..
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Old 12-10-2011, 03:33   #102
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

Let's see....now you're asking for advice about advice!
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Old 12-10-2011, 05:34   #103
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

I've found when I gave free advice that it was ignored totally... Some people equate free advice with bad crap. I should have charge them for it, because too many times the person that I had given the advice to had told me later that had ignored it to their determent.
Yep! should have charge them for my hard earned knowledge. But then I wouldn't have had the entertainment of watching them flounder about...
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:42   #104
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

There is enough differences in backgrounds on this forum that eventually the bad advice is rebutted, (usually). The opinions, (like what is the best anchor), have anecdotes from actual use that I find informative, even if I don't agree the the writers conclusion.

Overall everyone has at least some experience that is the collective knowledge of cruisersforum.

Together we are smarter than any of us.

The example of the gas tank, (I'm surprised knowing the issue of ethanol disolving fiberglass tanks that no one asked the condition of the gas tank, even stainless tanks can get pitted under some conditions).

I have given advice on sailing, even though I am relatively inexperienced, because I have learned how to capsize, and wanted to give other inexperienced sailers the oppportunity to avoid my particular mistake.
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Old 12-10-2011, 07:00   #105
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Re: Why Do Inexperienced People, with No Knowledge, Offer Advice ?

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There is enough differences in backgrounds on this forum that eventually the bad advice is rebutted, (usually). The opinions, (like what is the best anchor), have anecdotes from actual use that I find informative, even if I don't agree the the writers conclusion.

Overall everyone has at least some experience that is the collective knowledge of cruisersforum.

Together we are smarter than any of us.

The example of the gas tank, (I'm surprised knowing the issue of ethanol disolving fiberglass tanks that no one asked the condition of the gas tank, even stainless tanks can get pitted under some conditions).

I have given advice on sailing, even though I am relatively inexperienced, because I have learned how to capsize, and wanted to give other inexperienced sailers the oppportunity to avoid my particular mistake.
While this is true...I think the OP has the same problem that I often have. A boater starts asking questions about a problem around friends, dockmates. Let's face it...there are plenty of old salt's tales out there and the boater starts to form a strong opinion...often one that he/she WANTs to hear..often because it leads one down the easier/cheaper path to solution.

I think this is where the Chief has a problem as I...it takes Soooo long to dispell the bad ideas (not all of them are...but on more intricate issues...they may all intertwine) that now the newbie (or worse an old timer takling a new issue to them) is so confused they stop listening to you.

But as I posted before...there's so many in the marine business who are often clueless even with their own suggestions...no one seems towant to fully trust anyone discussing their baby....
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