When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Snore

This is my pet peeve about CF. No one should EVER encourage someone to leave.

SNIP

We can, and should, ask questions to help the person but telling people to "go for it" is reckless----

I think there are very different ways of encouraging and very different things to "go for". As in: it's one thing to encourage someone dreaming about it to take a leave from their everyday life that they have been leading for the last 40 years as so, and another thing to encourage someone to base jump from the Eiffel tower using a parachute made of bedsheets.

[bill352]

Originally Posted by YachtOgler

P.S. All online forums in my experience follow a very similar format, so I wouldn't spend too much time trying to change the advice people give or sweating negativity. For a fun read, check out this example: Hammer Forum Parody

That forum parody is hilarious and spot on, except...I didn't see a word about "armchair" carpenters. Boy, have we got a meme for them!

And they can have it.

[boatman61]

Way I look at it is this..
The skills, patience and common sense required in the last century are no longer a pre-requisite..
Something I noticed in the 80's and onwards.. the calculator killed mental arithmetic, the computer killed the 'Art' of writing and spelling skills, and attention spans outside phone inspiration is minimal.. there's a gadget for just about everything you need to know from nav to weather.. to below you.. to where you are.. to steer for you.. hell you can even furl sails at the push of a button.
So.. if the 'Newbie' can afford all the above...
GO FOR IT...!!
You can afford to hire someone to press the buttons..
Those who cant afford it should also...
GO FOR IT..!!
It takes blood, sweat and tears.. and on occasion serious pain and/or death... and stepping back a century..

Its like that 'Catch 22' I ran into when I came out of the RN and wanted marine related jobs.. must have 'Experience'
Folk don't learn the way they used to..
"Don't wanna break your wrist..? stick to the thick branches..!!"
These days its..
"Don't wanna break your wrist..?
Don't climb the tree..!!"

Strong is the lure of 'The Web'..

[SVNeko]

The problem is that oftentimes, and frequently with CF posters, the advice offerer doesn't know jack.

[goat]

Originally Posted by Snore

This is my pet peeve about CF. No one should EVER encourage someone to leave.

Think about it--- a perfect stranger (we have never met the person) is so unsure of themselves they ask an anonymous forum to validate their skills.

WTF?!?!?? While I am light on offshore experience, like many others on this forum I have a good history with the sea. If I have to ask someone if I am ready, I am not ready. This mindset has worked well for the past 60 years of interesting adventuress do close calls.


Will the forum be there when the 8, 10, 15 or higher rollers kick up some muck that fouls the filters? Or at 3 am to set a reef in the dark?? No it will be the poster and that person alone.

Only the person skipper can determine if he is ready. We can, and should, ask questions to help the person but telling people to "go for it" is reckless----


what was that guys name??? SCOOBERT?


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.

Scoobert is alive and well and resides on Sailnet. Still only listens when he's talking. Classic thread right here;

Our first good video - SailNet Community

Dylan Winter posted this video in the thread as a comparison but I see it's been removed and the thread, like all scoobert threads, is closed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aO5tZgdJcg

goat

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

The problem is that oftentimes, and frequently with CF posters, the advice offerer doesn't know jack.

Yeah... tell me about it...

Keep telling myself to 'Shut Up..!!'

[Snore]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Way I look at it is this..
The skills, patience and common sense required in the last century are no longer a pre-requisite..
Something I noticed in the 80's and onwards.. the calculator killed mental arithmetic, the computer killed the 'Art' of writing and spelling skills, and attention spans outside phone inspiration is minimal.. there's a gadget for just about everything you need to know from nav to weather.. to below you.. to where you are.. to steer for you.. hell you can even furl sails at the push of a button.
So.. if the 'Newbie' can afford all the above...
GO FOR IT...!!
You can afford to hire someone to press the buttons..
Those who cant afford it should also...
GO FOR IT..!!
It takes blood, sweat and tears.. and on occasion serious pain and/or death... and stepping back a century..

Its like that 'Catch 22' I ran into when I came out of the RN and wanted marine related jobs.. must have 'Experience'
Folk don't learn the way they used to..
"Don't wanna break your wrist..? stick to the thick branches..!!"
These days its..
"Don't wanna break your wrist..?
Don't climb the tree..!!"

Strong is the lure of 'The Web'..

Hard to tell when you are joking and when you are serious. Hell of a difference between being lost at sea and falling out of a tree.

Problem with "push button sailors" is that most (all) don't know what to do when the button does not work.

No worries- Darwin's Theory is validated with alarming regularity..

[FamilyVan]

I don't think there is that much risk in telling some one to go for it, because you can't just go for it. Becoming the owner of a boat is a process. It starts with an idea, asking for validation of the idea, doesn't magically make the idea reality.

After the idea, one must acquire a boat, which means going to boat shows, meeting with brokers, going for test sails etc.
Once the boat is acquired you need somewhere to dock it, but the marina won't let you in without proof of insurance, the insurance company wants to see a current survey and some evidence of competence, if its a yacht club even more is expected.

While the new owners are taking their 40' hunter to their new dock they will very quickly learn for themselves they are ill equipped to handle a boat that size and the boat will become a gin parlour with sails and will sit at dock for 5 years until they realise they need a 45' hunter to drink gin on.

And then there are a handful of exceptions that actually figure the sailing stuff out, but it doesn't happen over night.

It might be an interesting survey, I bet the vast majority of real sailors on here have been sailing since childhood and certainly didn't learn how on a 40' beneteau, they learned on Albacores and lasers and sharks.

Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=Snore;1877991]Hard to tell when you are joking and when you are serious. Hell of a difference between being lost at sea and falling out of a tree.QUOTE]

Oh I don't know..!!
Both can be lethal..

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

The problem is that oftentimes, and frequently with CF posters, the advice offerer doesn't know jack.

I know Jack. I met him at a bar in Puerto Vallarta. Nice guy. He must know a thing or two about sailing because he told me he circumnavigated on a Hobie 14. 😘


S/V B'Shert

[TrentePieds]

Originally Posted by chris mac

... teaching a skill enhances your abilities almost as much as the students.

A truism from the realm of pedagoguery as well as "higher education": "You never truly know a subject until you've taught it"

So ask away. A good question from a good student is like the threat of being shot in the morning. It focuses the mind.

And only the student can know what is, for him, a good question.

TrentePieds

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by gcaptain

I'm not frustrated personally... just trying to understand why some people feel the need to be trolls.

1) Yes but you are paying said teacher (via tuition or taxes)
2) True
3)True
4) They are of value to me too.

Some of the trolls are pretty convincing until you read enough posts and some you ?? Must be some type of phobia.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

I think there are very different ways of encouraging and very different things to "go for". As in: it's one thing to encourage someone dreaming about it to take a leave from their everyday life that they have been leading for the last 40 years as so, and another thing to encourage someone to base jump from the Eiffel tower using a parachute made of bedsheets.

Well put!

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

After the idea, one must acquire a boat, which means going to boat shows, meeting with brokers, going for test sails etc.

And that clearly demonstrates the schism between money and not money.

The rest of the world searches the "for sale" ads.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I agree totally! The other forum I am on, Sailnet, uses it and it really equalises the ratbags out of their bs. An intelligent comment will get 5 "Likes" and a moronic will get 1...from the idiots idiot mate.

CF should bring it in here. It really is a great advantage.

Mark,
So. . . then one's responses morph into a personality contest of likeability and and are, potentially, only well received by the clique to which you belong? This will only serve to silence some with valid contrary opinions and stifle serious, honest and open debate. But, I suppose it would serve to intimidate some of the "moronic ratbags" that oppose your views. Knowledge and ideas that become the target of popularity and sanctioned thought never represent the broad spectrum of honest and free intelligent discourse. I believe it is a overt form of censorship that would weaken the free flow of ideas that CF has come to represent. Good luck and good sailing.