When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

[gkstex]

My two cents-- I am a total newbee never sailed a boat only ridden on one sailboat in small lake in west Texas. I like everyone else dream of cruising one day. This is my first post but have been stalking this site for awhile. I vote for the honest approach--how else are we supposed to learn. I am enrolled in sailing classes and spend hour upon hour on the internet looking at boats and forums and anything else cruising related . When someone wearing boots and jeans pulls up to the local yacht club and starts asking questions about cruising--your average marina live in is not going to be very forthcoming. I have about five years of research and planning ahead of me before I put the lives of my wife and sons in my hands. So keep the honest answers coming sugar coating things won't help any of us out, and those of us that are determined and intelligent enough to listen will hopefully come up to you one day in an exotic destination and thank you for the tough answers and let you know how you kept them from getting in a bind.
Thanks
Keith

[sailorboy1]

5 years to learn a boat. I bet you drove maybe 10 times before getting a drivers licence and hitting the road next to a semi. Just saying we fear water a lot more than the more likely dangers. Just an example not picking on you specifically.

[TrentePieds]

Thinking back over a coupla years or three in this forum it seems to me that the people who "have seen the elephant" are very good about offering appropriate cautions to the dreamers. The "go for it stuff" seems to me to have come mainly from other dreamers :-)!

I think we can leave to new entries who asks the "should I - shouldn't I" question to sort out who talks sense and who doesn't.

Isn't that how Darwinsim works :-)?

TP

[Stenn]

Thanks Keith. One thing about the "5 years of research..."...if you listen to the cruising circumnavigators who have survived sailing the planet, they invariably say "go small," like less than 35 ft. When you do that, you can get out there now, and get that invaluable experience that research can not provide....it's that "flight hours" a pilot has to do in a specific aircraft....like SailorBoy says, you have to "learn" your boat...but you have to have one to do that....and they're much easier to handle and live with when you keep it "small." Getting out there doesn't mean taking off on a 500 mile trek first thing....for many years, you'll be happy going 20 to 50 miles in the Gulf...and with the weather you get, you don't have to go far to get LOTS of serious experience.

[sailorboy1]

I don't think most people say go smaller anymore! Except for those with smaller boats who think a 40' big is "big".

[Mike OReilly]

I rarely join the "I have a dream", or "is this totally crazy" threads. Only if I see some direct connection (near my location, same boat, etc.) might I offer a thought, but mostly I just ignore them. This person isn't even at the start of the cruising plan. I figure they need time, basic research or a therapist more than they need some anonymous internet babble. I neither encourage nor discourage. It's really not for me to say at this point.

If someone is at the early stages, but has clearly put in some thought and research, then I will offer my experiences if relevant. If I really think the person is headed in the wrong direction on something, I will say so, but I try to remain positive most of the time. Cruising in a smallish boat is crazy almost by definition. If crazy was the benchmark, none of us should have gone.

Now, I'm happy to respond to specific questions in the few areas I have some experience or useful knowledge about. And of course the occasional political thread is always fun. But for the pure dreamers I neither encourage or discourage.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait

What do you mean being all "hands-on" vs "all-bowditch"?

All hands-on - is learning from one's experience.

All bowditch (Bowditch's) - is learning from books written by others.

Cheers,
b.

[Stenn]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

All hands-on - is learning from one's experience.

All bowditch (Bowditch's) - is learning from books written by others.

Cheers,
b.

I think from historical reference:
"...handbook of navigation, American Practical Navigator, originally prepared by N. Bowditch and published since 1802 in a series of editions."....which took on the connotation "book learning" .

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by gkstex

My two cents-- I am a total newbee never sailed a boat only ridden on one sailboat in small lake in west Texas. I like everyone else dream of cruising one day. This is my first post but have been stalking this site for awhile. I vote for the honest approach--how else are we supposed to learn. I am enrolled in sailing classes and spend hour upon hour on the internet looking at boats and forums and anything else cruising related . When someone wearing boots and jeans pulls up to the local yacht club and starts asking questions about cruising--your average marina live in is not going to be very forthcoming. I have about five years of research and planning ahead of me before I put the lives of my wife and sons in my hands. So keep the honest answers coming sugar coating things won't help any of us out, and those of us that are determined and intelligent enough to listen will hopefully come up to you one day in an exotic destination and thank you for the tough answers and let you know how you kept them from getting in a bind.
Thanks
Keith

Welcome aboard CF, gkstex.

You should put "appreciates straight talk" in your signature line. [Go to CP at the top left of the page, then edit signature.] Some of us will take that at face value.

It is not the learning to sail that is the more difficult task, although learning to sail better and better is a lifetime commitment--it is learning your boat, like sailorboy1 wrote. If you do wind up going cruising, but even if you only sail coastally, you will save lots of money by doing all your work yourself, unless you are so wealthy that part doesn't matter to you. You will also have the confidence in your work on the boat, and you will build confidence in the boat, if she's been well chosen and is worthy of it. You cannot count on receiving good quality work from "professionals" just because they have a ticket to do their job. They vary considerably in costs and quality. Just as some doctors are better than others, so, too, with marine workers.

Ann

[Shark_Bait]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Welcome aboard CF, gkstex.



You cannot count on receiving good quality work from "professionals" just because they have a ticket to do their job. They vary considerably in costs and quality. Just as some doctors are better than others, so, too, with marine workers.



Ann

This very much. Plus, they might not always complete the work quickly. Especially if you're also paying to dock while waiting on parts to arrive. Island time is a legit thing and in my experience at least, locals get preferential treatment over outsiders. But that could have been because I was a military haole on Oahu. Who knows.

[barnakiel]

Btw a very worthy book. I have a pdf copy somewhere. Read some of it and found it very good.

It is different when we start young - plenty of time to read the books and as much time to spend it on the water. Not quite the case for those of us who picked up the bug after they had retired.

Cheers,
b.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I rarely join the "I have a dream", or "is this totally crazy" threads. Only if I see some direct connection (near my location, same boat, etc.) might I offer a thought, but mostly I just ignore them. This person isn't even at the start of the cruising plan. I figure they need time, basic research or a therapist more than they need some anonymous internet babble. I neither encourage nor discourage. It's really not for me to say at this point.

If someone is at the early stages, but has clearly put in some thought and research, then I will offer my experiences if relevant. If I really think the person is headed in the wrong direction on something, I will say so, but I try to remain positive most of the time. Cruising in a smallish boat is crazy almost by definition. If crazy was the benchmark, none of us should have gone.

Now, I'm happy to respond to specific questions in the few areas I have some experience or useful knowledge about. And of course the occasional political thread is always fun. But for the pure dreamers I neither encourage or discourage.

Unfortunately some encourage the pure dreamers. It seems like encouraging disaster. I'd guess they are the dreamers also?

[Stenn]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait

This very much. Plus, they might not always complete the work quickly. Especially if you're also paying to dock while waiting on parts to arrive. Island time is a legit thing and in my experience at least, locals get preferential treatment over outsiders. But that could have been because I was a military haole on Oahu. Who knows.

LoL..."... because I was a military haole on Oahu. Who knows...." Yep, that was it. ☺ I experienced the same thing just in everyday life around Biloxi in the Air Force, and grew up around Navy bases, the locals always have an attitude about all those on-locals...but, hopefully that's changed.

That point about "professionals" though....another "X" factor, you just never know....plus, most marinas are hiring and paying maybe, what $10/hr while charging us $100/hr, so don't be expecting they're all seasoned professionals....no different than contractors at home on land....

Learning and doing it yourself magnifies your "learning" your boat...so you, at the wheel or tiller, see, in your mind's eye, every inch of that boat you've touched, you recognize sounds nobody else would hear, you know potential weak points or issues you'll be watching for when spontaneous conditions arise...

...and then there's "response time," that can only be tuned from being under way...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Unfortunately some encourage the pure dreamers. It seems like encouraging disaster. I'd guess they are the dreamers also?

So true. Like I say, I think the pure dreamers who post here (“I’ve never sailed, but I want to travel the world…”, etc) likely need a therapist more than they need anonymous Internet advice. I just don’t engage with those threads. No point.

If they really are taken by the cruising bug then they will go off and do some basic research. THEN they will come back with real questions. At that point I might offer my experience or opinions if relevant. I tend not to discourage people unless they are planning something I really know to be crazy. After all, we’re all slightly crazy to be doing this sort of thing .

[danielamartindm]

FWIW, I think that CF commenters do an overall great job of seeing red flags in the comments and questions of newbies, and steering them in the direction of safety without "shattering their dreams." It's a delicate balance, but newbies benefit from the sometimes contentious debates that we see where safety and dreams are concerned.