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Old 29-02-2016, 09:08   #331
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

I'm not in the "just go crowd" but only because of our lack of experience. I have been sailing big boats now for about 30 years but I've never had to maintain a big cruising boat or contemplate taking one across an ocean until now. Its taken three years to get a "ready" boat to the point where we know her systems, have improved them to make the boat safer and more reliable, and learned her behavior for us to even contemplate an ocean crossing.

I feel that the more you sail your own "new" boat in protected or coastal waters the more you learn about yourself and the boat. Things you had not even thought of as being a concern arise as being major potential problems. Our last three years doing the east coast/keys/bahamas has been an extended shakedown.

The more you learn how to solve problems in an environment of training, where coaching and parts are readily available, the better you and your boat will be equipped/supplied when it comes time to cross an ocean.

Even if a sailor has 30 years of sailing experience and the boat style has a strong history of ocean passage making, that has little bearing on the sea going capability of you in your particular vessel.
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Old 29-02-2016, 10:28   #332
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Sometimes, I think we're making it all sound a lot harder then it is.

Crossing an ocean is usually pretty easy sailing. Boats that are abandoned seem to do just fine without any crew (dare I say they some do better once the crew leaves?)

My size boats with a crew of 2 did just fine before there was AIS, GPS, plotters etc. and "we" decided you need at least a 45' boat with all the bells and whistles to survive the trip.

Not saying everyone go and buy a boat and cross an ocean, but no need to overthink and "over prepare" either. You can't practice ocean crossing anyway without actually crossing an ocean From where I am, getting to the ocean is a bigger challenge then making it across the ocean ...

Sailing near land is, IMHO, harder and more risky then ocean sailing.
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Old 29-02-2016, 10:44   #333
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pirate Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Sometimes, I think we're making it all sound a lot harder then it is.

Crossing an ocean is usually pretty easy sailing. Boats that are abandoned seem to do just fine without any crew (dare I say they some do better once the crew leaves?)

My size boats with a crew of 2 did just fine before there was AIS, GPS, plotters etc. and "we" decided you need at least a 45' boat with all the bells and whistles to survive the trip.

Not saying everyone go and buy a boat and cross an ocean, but no need to overthink and "over prepare" either. You can't practice ocean crossing anyway without actually crossing an ocean From where I am, getting to the ocean is a bigger challenge then making it across the ocean ...

Sailing near land is, IMHO, harder and more risky then ocean sailing.
Got my vote with the above statement..
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Old 25-12-2016, 00:44   #334
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Sept 2015 I set off to sail across the Pacific for the first time with my wife that had no experience sailing except for day sailing around the Puget Sound a few times.
I myself even though I grew up sailing around Puget Sound, I never sailed beyond 20 miles off the coast.

We sailed to Monterrey California, where my wife decided she had enough of sailing so I picked up a minimally experienced crew to go with me across to Hawaii. Main reason for crew is I had no working Autopilot, even though I had fitted a windvane, we could not get it working correctly, so we had to trade off on the helm all the way.

After Hawaii, I installed a new Autopilot and sailed alone to Marshall Islands, through Micronesia (FSM) stopping at Pohnpei, Chook, Lamotrek and Yap. Finally arriving at Surigao Island, Philippines 9 months after leaving Seattle.

Sailing across the pacific, I experienced a lot of different weather, ripped out sails, broken hardware and other more minor issues. Thankfully I had spares for almost everything and just replaced the sails and hardware as I went. note, changing out a hank-on head sail running downwind in 30 knot winds and 20' waves sailing alone is very challenging at the least!"

To prepare myself, I read a lot of books, asked a lot of questions to people that sailed across already and spent about $30k of upgrades to my Mariner 40 ketch before I left.

All I can say is, people that go for the first time should be prepared as much as possible, sure they can just go, but when you are out in the middle of the ocean in heavy weather and your sails rip out, but you didn't have the mindset to carry spares, it can get really crazy out there.

physically, open ocean sailing "Can be" easier in the fact that you don't need to worry about hitting objects as much, but mentally it is harder. When you are 1000 miles from any land and 25' waves are coming up on you and crashing over the boat, it really is not fun or easy, just saying

I guess my advice to newbies is to ask people that have experience, not people that have not the experience of being out there themselves. I would not tell them "Just go" as just one piece of information that they could get from me could be a matter of life or death.

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Old 25-12-2016, 00:47   #335
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Just go.It's safer than driving on a highway to work.
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Old 25-12-2016, 01:40   #336
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

In answer to this long-running thread I would recommend you get a copy of Shrimpy by Shane Acton (rare) He circumnavigated in an 18' marine ply Caprice, never having sailed previously. He did go through The Suez and Panama Canals though!
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Old 26-12-2016, 00:07   #337
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Ok...I'm just a little confused...You said "I never sailed beyond 20 miles off the coast". But you have a "USCG Captain 100 ton Masters License"?
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Old 26-12-2016, 02:05   #338
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Ok...I'm just a little confused...You said "I never sailed beyond 20 miles off the coast". But you have a "USCG Captain 100 ton Masters License"?
I have a inland waters license, not a offshore license since when I took the test I didn't have the offshore sea time to get the coastal unlimited license, but this is thread is not about my Captains license is it? if you need to know all the different captains licenses then we could start another thread
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Old 26-12-2016, 03:23   #339
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by SV Windrush II View Post
I have a inland waters license, not a offshore license since when I took the test I didn't have the offshore sea time to get the coastal unlimited license, but this is thread is not about my Captains license is it? if you need to know all the different captains licenses then we could start another thread
Now there is a burn.....


Made me shower my screen with coffee.

By the way everyone.... At this time of the year with a new world dawning...

BEST WISHES TO YOU ALL... sincerely.
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Old 27-12-2016, 15:44   #340
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Sometimes, I think we're making it all sound a lot harder then it is.

Crossing an ocean is usually pretty easy sailing. Boats that are abandoned seem to do just fine without any crew (dare I say they some do better once the crew leaves?)

My size boats with a crew of 2 did just fine before there was AIS, GPS, plotters etc. and "we" decided you need at least a 45' boat with all the bells and whistles to survive the trip.

Not saying everyone go and buy a boat and cross an ocean, but no need to overthink and "over prepare" either. You can't practice ocean crossing anyway without actually crossing an ocean From where I am, getting to the ocean is a bigger challenge then making it across the ocean ...

Sailing near land is, IMHO, harder and more risky then ocean sailing.
Yep. Some of the people who cruise today would probably be shocked at what it was like pre-GPS pre chartplotter pre-radar. Back then, it was a lot easier to just follow a compass heading than to actually figure out what part of the coast you were near. But, yet, somehow those of us who did it survived (mostly).
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Old 18-01-2017, 08:13   #341
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I'm not in the "just go crowd" but only because of our lack of experience. I have been sailing big boats now for about 30 years but I've never had to maintain a big cruising boat or contemplate taking one across an ocean until now. Its taken three years to get a "ready" boat to the point where we know her systems, have improved them to make the boat safer and more reliable, and learned her behavior for us to even contemplate an ocean crossing.

I feel that the more you sail your own "new" boat in protected or coastal waters the more you learn about yourself and the boat. Things you had not even thought of as being a concern arise as being major potential problems. Our last three years doing the east coast/keys/bahamas has been an extended shakedown.

The more you learn how to solve problems in an environment of training, where coaching and parts are readily available, the better you and your boat will be equipped/supplied when it comes time to cross an ocean.

Even if a sailor has 30 years of sailing experience and the boat style has a strong history of ocean passage making, that has little bearing on the sea going capability of you in your particular vessel.
I agree with this. I started on a Sunfish at 12, moved to a Catalina 22 at 25 for a few years, then moved to Northwest Michigan and bought a Tanzer 22 that I cruised for seven years. Fin keel, outboard motor; nice boat, built strong. Then I was beached for almost 20 years.

Three years ago we bought an Alberg 35: modified full keel, diesel engine, big. I figured I'd be fine; after all, I've been sailing my whole life. I was wrong. First, I've spent the whole time learning about the diesel. Second, with the small boats I could correct mistakes in docking by pushing off; Pendragon, the Alberg 35, just goes where she's going and I have to be much more careful about making sure that's the right place. I've learned to use spring lines and to go very very slow.

We've had our moments of "oh no" but so far not too many. I'm finally feeling comfortable going in and out of the dock, single handing the boat (we have a wheel with an autopilot) and just .. making her go. And stop. Any seasoned sailor knows it's the latter that's the real problem.

As to wives on board: I'm now teaching my third wife to sail. She told me recently that this year she wants to learn to single hand. Just like the boat, the key is go slow. But I wouldn't trade anything for the evenings in the cockpit with a glass of something and her company.
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Old 18-01-2017, 08:21   #342
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Some are comfortable with the "Go Now" approach and I've shared many an anchorage with them, while others need and want years of experience.

Just like there is NO such thing as the perfect boat because people are different, there is also NO SUCH THING as perfect advice on how/when to go cruising....again because people are different. No better or worse...just different.

I know in this sound bite/twitter/FakeBook world of pithy answers to what are really more complicated questions everyone is looking for the right soundbite answer. But it doesn't exist and that's what makes the Cruising Experience so special. The longer you cruise the more you start to understand and appreciate this.

Do what works for YOU and be happy with it, there is no need to justify it because it doesn't matter if others thing you are crazy...we all are!
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Old 18-01-2017, 08:28   #343
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

if you donot go offshore in your boat you will not know what is wrong with it.it may LOOK pretty but ...hahahahaha
and if you cannot manage a broken boat, how the hell will you get back home???
is important to learn how to do it all--broken boat to beauty.
btw--it was the well travelled beauties i saw burning to waterline and sinking on a whale... so-- you cannot tell what is gonna happen by the shine on your hull.
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Old 18-01-2017, 20:15   #344
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Some have to climb Everest, others are satisfied with a stroll in the park. If the itch is there, it takes willpower not to scratch. Encouraging someone to follow a dream is a good thing. As is recommending a modicum of prudence.

There a sailors here that travel the seas on shoestring and others that are always looking for the next thing that will make them "safe" before they venture away.

Well intentioned encouragement is a gift as opposed to words offered with hope of an entertaining crash and burn.
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Old 18-01-2017, 23:59   #345
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Like Captain Ron said..."If anything is going to happen...it'd going to happen out there.

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