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Old 24-02-2016, 18:24   #316
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I reckon, if you have the inclination, the money, the time, throw caution to the wind and head out past the black stump beyond bourke.

One of the things you simply cannot determine on forums is a person's abilitites. You can determine to some extent their knowledge on a subject, but you cant determine if someone is learning and the knowledge base is growing for them.

Then there is language

Its also difficult to determine someones vessel ability.
Furthermore, it's impossible to know if somebody has an innate ability to figure things out, cope, and learn.
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Old 24-02-2016, 18:56   #317
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

I don't recall seeing any responses to a newb's "should I" question that were an absolute and heedless "go" or "don't go".

Everything I have seen has been "here is what you have to consider" or "have you thought of?" or "here is what happened to me"

And that is surely what people come here for. And I'm sure I'll be joined by many old hands in my opinion that when a newb asks a naive question - whether the naivite is real or merely apparent - giving such an answer is the least an honest old sailorman can do for someone just starting out. In my opinion the comradeship of the sea demands it.

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Old 24-02-2016, 19:12   #318
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pirate Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Some of us assume, IMHO wrongly, that if something is available in print, video, or any other published form, this constitutes an example.

In fact, few, if any, sailors of small or poorly prepared boats make such a claim. And everybody is free to share their story. Or do we want to read only stories from well equipped, competently sailed and maintained boats that participate in Rallies patronized by Yachting World?

Frankly, I get much more inspiration from the other kind. And it is inspiration, not organization, that makes thing happen.

b.
The ways folk start are legion.. both in inspiration and achievement..
What gets me though is this 'I want to sail round the world what do I need..?'
I tend to view these as someone saw a movie and it had a sailboat in an exotic setting with gorgeous chesty females ( seems a lot of guys are hung up on a Mummy thing ).. so gets online when he gets home.. Googles and up pops CF.. BINGO..!!
Last week it was Golf.. Para-gliding..
If someone comes on saying they just read 'The Long Way' or 'A World of My Own' and was blown away.. any advice on how to get started on the water.
Whole different thing..
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Old 24-02-2016, 19:17   #319
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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SNIP

If someone comes on saying they just read 'The Long Way' or 'A World of My Own' and was blown away.. any advice on how to get started on the water.
Whole different thing..
Remember reading this in the 7th grade. It was on my Dad's bookshelf.

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Old 24-02-2016, 19:18   #320
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Well even very sensible people, of long standing sensibleness, aren't immune to brain farts are they?

Old Bill was one such type (had even been in the Old Bill). Had a nice solid Hurley (a 24 if I remember right), and he had taken a shine to these new fangled roller furling devices. But he hadn't taken a shine to the price charged for them, and so set out to make his own.

The knock on the door came when it was completed, and he dragged me out for the day full of joy and smugness at his achievement.

When we got on board, I went to the foredeck ready to heap high praise on his efforts, and, to be fair, he had done a really good job on most of it. The bit that was a brain fart was all too obvious though . . . .

"Bill?" says I, "You haven't REALLY made this out of *COPPER* tubing have you???1111!!!"

"Yeah it'll be fine!" says Bill.

Well I almost got off the boat, but Bill was determined to go out and test his creation, and as he was getting on a bit, I could visualise all sorts of problems he wouldn't be able to cope with, so I went along. Work it did for a while too, for about an hour downwind. Then apart it came (pulpit end) as the wind had sprung up, and muggins here then had the task of trying to tame a wildly moving furling mechanism, while it was blowing all over the place, and with very sharp and fast moving bits of copper pipe where it had broken free.

Not fun, but I did manage it eventually.

Old Bill bought a retail furler the following week (and I told him that as far as anybody else was concerned, that retail furler was the one that Bill had made - he was quite chuffed about that).
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Old 24-02-2016, 19:34   #321
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pirate Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Know a few folk who've improvised furling mains using single line and small drum furlers on boats up to 30ft.. crap for pointing into the wind but good enough if your happy with 50-60* off..
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Old 24-02-2016, 19:35   #322
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Is it our 'job' to encourage or discourage?

People come here to ask questions. If you have an answer or advise you want to share, you do. What they do with it is up to them.

Most people will be just fine; all you really need is common sense. Something the guy in the story the OP linked obviously lacked.

I know quite a few people who'd never even seen a boat up close, bought a sailboat and started sailing. All of them did well and learned along the way. But these are all people who were aware of how much they'd have to learn, and they wanted to learn - which is the most important part.

Personally, the question that always annoys me is: is boat XYZ okay for offshore cruising? For crying out loud, any well built boat that's been well taken care of will get you where you want to go. Just buy whatever damn boat you like and stop asking about every make & model ever built

I've crewed for experienced sailors that made me regret ever trusting them. And one of them is now teaching other people offshore sailing ... Yikes. Experience is overrated.

Anyway, the one responsible is the one who's captain of the boat. And each and every crew member has to decide for themselves if they trust the captain - like the wife in the story who obviously didn't and refused to sail with him. She had common sense

Edit: entertainment wise, I love the experienced sailors (*cough*) who'll walk up to my little boat, look her over with a very serious look on their face, knock on the hull a few times and then report back to me about seaworthy they feel she is. Some are so knowledgeable they comment about the mast being "a tad oversized" for such a little boat.
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Old 24-02-2016, 19:51   #323
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Know a few folk who've improvised furling mains using single line and small drum furlers on boats up to 30ft.. crap for pointing into the wind but good enough if your happy with 50-60* off..[/FONT]
Aye if Bill hadn't used copper tube, his would have worked with something up to the job.

He was a great character (he made the best dressed crab in the World too, and made a fortune from it in the pub he owned).

I do think enthusiasm needs to be encouraged and nurtured, and then it is easily turned into constructive learning.

There's way too much negativity in the World these days, and it's not healthy.

eta: Lizzy Belle sums it up well I think: "Most people will be just fine; all you really need is common sense."
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Old 25-02-2016, 06:50   #324
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Furthermore, it's impossible to know if somebody has an innate ability to figure things out, cope, and learn.
Innate abilities are of limited importance. SKILLS come from EXPERIENCE. Sailing is a practical exercise: hours on the water are far more important than whatever innate one might have or not.

It is easy to overweight, in a forum conversation, the value of the undefined. But the sea is a hostile environment, not a place where one should test their allegedly innate yet practically unproven talents.

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Old 25-02-2016, 07:03   #325
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Is it our 'job' to encourage or discourage?(...)
Exactly.

If you think you lived thru something positive, something building and of use to others, just tell your story. Those who need encouragement will be encouraged. The same thing applies to negative experiences. You lived thru some hard life lessons? Tell your story. Someone may be warned.


I take this one step further and claim that much as we may encourage or discourage people to do or not do things, THEY WILL STILL DO AS THEY LIKE. Not as we tell them.

Observe people who come to you for advice: most of them already have a very FIXED idea of what they are going to do, they only come to you asking and then use your response according to how it fits: if it does, they use your idea, if it does not, they use it as a negative anchor point or else disregard it.

We truly truly overestimate the extent to which our encouraging and discouraging results in other people's actions. It takes just some quiet observation, some retrospective and you may come to a similar conclusion.

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Old 25-02-2016, 07:53   #326
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

I am one of the new guys spoken about in this thread. Yes, if I got in a boat now, and left for South America, I would probably be rescued by the Coast Guard in a hour, or never heard from again. This I realise.

Yes, I want to sail a cat around the world. It is not because a saw a movie with large-breasted females in bikinis on a foreign beach, read any book, or anything like that. It's just something I feel I need to do. I am following or reading the stories of various boats that have or are doing what I want to do, have been in contact with skippers and boat owners of various skill levels (not all have my goal in mind, but the fact remains is that they almost all have considerably more experience than me, that I can draw on). Yes, I have had many people say "just go if you can", and others telling me to rather take up golf or stamp-collecting. I expected that, and still expect to hear much the same in future.

In researching the above, I know what is required to achieve my goal. It won't be easy, and will definitely require a large amount of planning. If I somehow ended up with all the required funds TODAY, I would still follow my intended schedule of departing in 2019.

But, as was mentioned in this thread, some guys were interested in golf last week and fly fishing the week before. Not so in my case, THIS is my goal, and with the Admiral slowly coming onboard as well, it will be achieved as a team.

Just my view on the dicussions going on in this thread.

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Old 25-02-2016, 13:44   #327
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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I am one of the new guys spoken about in this thread. Yes, if I got in a boat now, and left for South America, I would probably be rescued by the Coast Guard in a hour, or never heard from again. This I realise.

Yes, I want to sail a cat around the world. It is not because a saw a movie with large-breasted females in bikinis on a foreign beach, read any book, or anything like that. It's just something I feel I need to do. I am following or reading the stories of various boats that have or are doing what I want to do, have been in contact with skippers and boat owners of various skill levels (not all have my goal in mind, but the fact remains is that they almost all have considerably more experience than me, that I can draw on). Yes, I have had many people say "just go if you can", and others telling me to rather take up golf or stamp-collecting. I expected that, and still expect to hear much the same in future.

In researching the above, I know what is required to achieve my goal. It won't be easy, and will definitely require a large amount of planning. If I somehow ended up with all the required funds TODAY, I would still follow my intended schedule of departing in 2019.

But, as was mentioned in this thread, some guys were interested in golf last week and fly fishing the week before. Not so in my case, THIS is my goal, and with the Admiral slowly coming onboard as well, it will be achieved as a team.

Just my view on the dicussions going on in this thread.

B
Recently I added my suggestions to someone in another thread who also wanted to sail a catamaran, with his family and dog, around the world. Many folks also chimed in with sensible approaches to his goal, given that he had zero experience. He seemed to feel we were just being negative. You, on the other hand, from what you are saying, sound like a person I'd feel safe in saying, "GO! (when you and the boat are ready)" because you are already open to informed suggestions. Best of luck!
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Old 28-02-2016, 14:28   #328
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

I'd try to understand their level of competency, and if it was low but they insisted then I'd find out if they had children. If not and they were insistent then I would simply encourage them to leave yesterday. Seems that death is the only thing that discourages stupid.

And yes most of the above is sarcasm but some folks simply will not listen to anything that doesn't match their expectations.


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Old 28-02-2016, 14:41   #329
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

This has been beat to death. Encourage a dream not stupidity.
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Old 28-02-2016, 15:06   #330
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

I hold all of you accountable for the meniscus tear in my left knee. If you had encouraged me better I would have been out cruising instead of being at my customer where the injury occurred!
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