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Old 26-07-2015, 16:49   #16
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Why do we feel we have to be encouraging people at all?
Easy...to justify our own decisions.
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Old 26-07-2015, 17:14   #17
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

There was a thread a while back, wherein deck officer, a CMA graduate, offered up a lot of well thought out advice to the OP, who basically went out and did precisely what they wanted, seeming not to heed what was really well founded counsel.

I've been flamed for offering an unwanted point of view to an OP. I did not like it. Fear of being flamed is a strong deterrent for me. But, sometimes, "help" is tough love, not just, "oh, how wonderful!"

Still, there are people whose expectations are not going to be met. Some seem incapable of learning, even from their own mistakes. Some do not respect the fact that they're going into a potentially hostile environment, do not anticipate that things will need repairing, which takes time as well as money. [I think of the new catamaran for sale in Panama, because the owners couldn't cope emotionally with it requiring fixing as often as it did.] At least on this forum, it seems that the ones with experience counsel "ease your way into it" and the less actual experience some have the more they take the "follow your dream" stance. Cruising really isn't for everyone, and it's not all mai tais in the sunset; some of it is fixing your boat in exotic locations, with makeshift means.

Speaking only for myself on this, I am trying to offer suggestions, or ideas, to people, who then have the responsibility to make their own decisions. I want my "help" to not lead folks into danger, but I think driving on the freeway's more dangerous than cruising, too...

Ann
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Old 26-07-2015, 17:38   #18
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

I guess we should "encourage" new sailors to read articles like this (actually all the articles in the blog by Mario Vittone).
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Old 26-07-2015, 19:20   #19
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

I mostly don't contribute to threads that are by starry-eyed newbies. I figure they have way too much to learn before they can even start to ask useful questions. I do try and help newbies (and oldbies) with any specific question I have knowledge about. And sometime I will offer advice and encouragement to thoughtful newbies who are on the more frugal side of the cruising spectrum; sometime to balance out all the $5k/month cruisers responders.

I try to take people at their word and answer questions if I can. I don't think it's my job to judge people. But if it's a "I know nothing and I want to sail around the world" kind of post I usually just ignore it.


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Old 26-07-2015, 19:36   #20
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Scoobert.

He's still reinventing the wheel on his blog, no longer here.

But --- he did get to Florida.
I'm amazed to hear he made it.
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Old 26-07-2015, 19:41   #21
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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I'm amazed to hear he made it.

Me, too.

He's kinda a McGyver type. But with a questionable attitude. One of those guys who always griped out loud about the very advice he asked about. He eventually employed most of it, but would only take personal credit for "inventing" it.

Funny guy, in retrospect.
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Old 26-07-2015, 20:21   #22
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Back in the 70's I gave a pep-talk to an aquantaince and told him he could be anything he wanted to be.

Elvis died and he wanted to be Elvis.

So, yah. You have to be careful encouraging people.
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Old 26-07-2015, 20:45   #23
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Most of us are prone to direct our attention to ignore the bad and highlight the good and many of us just the opposite. Unfortunately, all of us, often get it wrong.
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Old 26-07-2015, 20:51   #24
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

The converse is people get told on here they can't go to sea because they don't have some level of what others think is superfluous knowledge, or a boat others dont agree with.

Probably half the people who should go don't and half that shouldn't go do.

I just try to be honest and give what seems to be right to me. But its up to each person to make their own decisions and plan. We are not here to hold hands.

Its the uninformed crew that climb aboard at the last minute that I worry about.


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Old 26-07-2015, 22:07   #25
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Probably half the people who should go don't and half that shouldn't go do.
That's probably true. I and my wife needed to eat some humble pie on our crossing to the Bahamas this year. In a way we were a little resentful that so many people that were (in our opinion) less prepared than we were, made it fine and without incident.

It's only in retrospect that you gain the understanding that mother nature continually shuffles the deck so no matter how well prepared the "books" say you are, if you end up making bad decisions or get dealt a bad hand, you are going to learn something new.

No amount of advice from us about 'going now' (or not) is going to change what happens 'out there' as Capt. Ron put it. Some people that are very well equipped, well trained, and seasoned will fail and die. Others, without any benefit of any of that equipment, training, and seasoning, will eventually complete multiple expeditions and get the equipment, training, and experience.

IMO - We should always encourage proper fitting out, proper training, and proper experience needed for any given situation. The guy that wants to buy a boat and move it down the ICW without experience should be given different encouragement than the guy attempting a crossing of the pacific without any experience.
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Old 26-07-2015, 22:52   #26
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
There was a thread a while back, wherein deck officer, a CMA graduate, offered up a lot of well thought out advice to the OP, who basically went out and did precisely what they wanted, seeming not to heed what was really well founded counsel.

I've been flamed for offering an unwanted point of view to an OP. I did not like it. Fear of being flamed is a strong deterrent for me. But, sometimes, "help" is tough love, not just, "oh, how wonderful!"

Still, there are people whose expectations are not going to be met. Some seem incapable of learning, even from their own mistakes. Some do not respect the fact that they're going into a potentially hostile environment, do not anticipate that things will need repairing, which takes time as well as money. [I think of the new catamaran for sale in Panama, because the owners couldn't cope emotionally with it requiring fixing as often as it did.]
There is a original poster on a current thread who was proposing with an avowed zero level of experience at all to take their newly purchased cat direct from St. Martin to Panama at the end of this coming August… To which I replied.

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At least on this forum, it seems that the ones with experience counsel "ease your way into it" and the less actual experience some have the more they take the "follow your dream" stance. Cruising really isn't for everyone, and it's not all mai tais in the sunset; some of it is fixing your boat in exotic locations, with makeshift means.

Speaking only for myself on this, I am trying to offer suggestions, or ideas, to people, who then have the responsibility to make their own decisions. I want my "help" to not lead folks into danger, but I think driving on the freeway's more dangerous than cruising, too...

Ann
Some of it? Well I would kinda say a whole lot!
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Old 26-07-2015, 23:00   #27
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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The converse is people get told on here they can't go to sea because they don't have some level of what others think is superfluous knowledge, or a boat others dont agree with.

Probably half the people who should go don't and half that shouldn't go do.

I just try to be honest and give what seems to be right to me. But its up to each person to make their own decisions and plan. We are not here to hold hands.

Its the uninformed crew that climb aboard at the last minute that I worry about.

Mark
Absolutely. I continually admonish those who seek (always unsuccessfully in this case) to crew with me and do not ask sufficiently (or at all) about the vessel or myself etc. I will not sail with someone careless of their own safety, and my counsel to them is always the same: ALWAYS ASK a good deal of demanding questions about the nature of disaster preparedness of the boat, communications, equipment etc. as well as the qualifications and experience/attitude of the skipper. A bad skipper with a chip on their shoulder will balk at it, and they are the ones to avoid anyhow. A well prepared skip with plenty of thought/quals/experience will be proud to discuss the preparations and thought that has gone into whatever trip is planned, and their own attitude, skills and experience. The girls on the Munetra could perhaps have been saved by such questions, as could many others.
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Old 27-07-2015, 04:43   #28
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

I've always thought that the people who shouldn't go are the ones asking a forum if they should. If you need an internet forum of people mostly sitting around with their computers to answer the question for you, you shouldn't go!
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Old 27-07-2015, 05:03   #29
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I always say... 'GO NOW..!!'
Sorts the 'Wheat from the Chaff' so much quicker...
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Old 27-07-2015, 05:50   #30
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

I met a guy on the ramp at Okahu Bay in Auckland who was about to paddle a kayak around NZ.

He was a well spoken Australian, fit looking and wind-beaten, like the kind of guy who would jump off very high places for kicks and use the word "awesome" a lot.

I walked up with my black dog, Munter. The man had all his things laid out on the grass out the back of Ferg's and was sorting and checking all manner of aquatic survival technology- the miniature version.

As I'd never seen such a comprehensive collection, outside of a boat shop, ( in this case, literally,) I pulled up for a gander and a chat, as you do.

The guy had never kayaked in the sea before and was just getting ready to set off. He said something about learning to roll or some such and I got that, " listening to a dead man talking," kind of feeling.

The guy knew his ****. He'd done all sorts of hung-ho stuff for fun and professionally and he'd invested serious money and planning in the thin layer of dry-bagged goodies in front of us. It boggled the innermost depths of my salt-addled mind to reconcile the apparent preparedness this guy had to undertake one of the most daring nautical journeys in the history of mankind, learning to paddle on the way.

I don't have a clue what happened to the guy. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. Perhaps you, reading this, are he and I got it all wrong. If so, let me know.

I set off on my own for the first time once. It hurt, but I did it again and again, like any real addict will tell you. No matter who told me it would kill me, I still had to try. On the other hand, I sold a boat to a blind idiot once and I rue the day that man became able to go to sea.

As long as they're out there, none of us are safe.


Peace.
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