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Old 03-03-2019, 00:28   #61
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

If im not comfortable I move regardless of whether I belief I have the right to ask the other guy to move or not, just dont want conflict. If i ask someone to move and they get narky about it I risk my ego getting engaged and react aggressively back, Id rather avoid this.

If they are over my anchor and I have no way of moving then Ill chat to them.
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Old 03-03-2019, 05:11   #62
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Its gets better... Here is a picture of us both in the anchorage. Him to the right, me to the left. You can see how much space between us? Meanwhile, see how close he is getting to the boat behind him.


Palm Beach. Thatís just about the biggest anchorage on the ICW, literally two miles long and about 8-10í depth. If no one actually dragged whoever anchored second is at fault. With 2 days of sitting you had plenty of opportunity to assess relative scope.

No doubt the current is fairly brisk there and wind against current makes it interesting but it is predictable. With a wind event and the switching current I would certainly be extremely vigilant about breaking loose. In fact I would have picked up and moved to the south end where there is more room.

But again, if no one actually dragged the the second person to anchor is at fault. Itís pretty clear cut.
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Old 03-03-2019, 15:07   #63
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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......
But again, if no one actually dragged the the second person to anchor is at fault. Itís pretty clear cut.
And the number one boat didn't let out more scope.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:15   #64
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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I am shocked to read this... I thought we had worked this out amicably.

Here is MY end of that story - be careful what you put on the internet.

1) We arrive THREE days before and there is no "wind storm" predicted. You are a new cruiser. You and I are plenty of far apart - in fact we dropped our anchor several boat lengths behind you. You have every opportunity to say something over the several happy hours we had together. We all sat fine at anchor for several days.

2) You meanwhile are sweeping the anchorage with the massive amount of chain you have out, impacting not just us but all of the boats around you, including the Tayana in front of you and the commercial barge area.

3) We do end up having a wind event that lasts not more than a few hours and in a wind against tide situation EVERYONE, including yourself, is sailing at anchor. Several other boats later identify to insurance that you dragged.

4) We do have a broad side swipe, which is so limited, my little "piece of **** boat" that you called it sustained no damage and the only damage you sustain is a small chip out of your side rubrail where it impacted my rigging. I still have those pictures. I don't blame you for the drag, everyone drags and that area of the ICW is known for holding issues.

5) Afterwards we amicably discuss, apologize to each other for our mean words, and agree that insurance is the best way to handle it. So that is what we did. I call my insurance and you call yours. Pantaenius shows up and we have a conversation, pictures are taken and we both go on our own way. Both insurance companies agree this is no fault.

6) If you are so knowledgable and concerned... nobody was keeping your anchor weighed down. You are ultimately responsible for your vessel and could have picked up and moved.

If you spent two months in a boatyard literally fixing 3 inches of rubrail, you got ripped off.

I was really under the impression that this was handled amicably and that you were satisfied with the results. I think your memory of events feel a little dramatic because you were so new. Reading this really makes me thankful that we brought in insurance.
===============================================

First of all, I did not identify you other than the boat and color...no names.

Secondly, I believe you are incorrect in several of your memories above.

Third, the insurance company surveyor found cracking of the hull laminates that you and I did not see. It required significant fiberglass work and a great deal of time and effort. The insurance company surveyor inspected the hull after grinding off the gel coat and recommended the repairs. I'm pretty sure the insurance company is not in the habit of paying for needless repairs.

Fourth, I did ask you to move and you told me with your vast experience you were fine, and you would keep an eye on it, but when you hit us you were down below deck.

Last, attached is a photo of my chartplotter after the impact. I'm the red boat, you are the white boat. From the tracks I'd like to ask who was all over the place with too much rode out?
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:54   #65
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees


When personal battles go internet public

I was 150í from some uptight cruiser last year and he thought that was too close and came in his dinghy to tell me how we were going to ruin his lifeís dream of cruising because we were going to crash into each other.

Have you noticed that from the boat at anchor everyone looks closer than they are if you look from a little distance in the drink?
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:44   #66
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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...Have you noticed that from the boat at anchor everyone looks closer than they are if you look from a little distance in the drink?
Yes, I think most problems look better when viewed with a drink in my hand.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:25   #67
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

One thing I have noticed from this discussion is how everyone on a boat thinks they're right, and that the other boat has it wrong.


And this is true regardless of which boat you're on.
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Old 04-03-2019, 10:51   #68
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Yes, I think most problems look better when viewed with a drink in my hand.
Sometimes a typo is ..................... right
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Old 04-03-2019, 12:06   #69
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Carlylelk, when did this happen? There is a green Cabo in our yard has been here over a year but looks like some damage on the stern port side.
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Old 04-03-2019, 12:33   #70
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Been here, had a open fishermen go right over our rode and catch it. Slung sausages right off the grill.
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Old 04-03-2019, 14:04   #71
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

I had one one case where a fellow was too close in 15 years. His stern ended up up 25 feet directly in front of my bow. I kindly asked him to move his boat forward so I could retrieve my anchor. I then move 500 hundred feet away and re-anchored.



For me the only concern is can I get my hook up if things go sideways. Some folks just like a crowd I guess. In that case above, there were plenty of other places to anchor. Really I did not trust that they really knew how to anchor.



I did move my boat one other time when I thought someone was too close. But it's no biggy to move.
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Old 04-03-2019, 14:47   #72
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Now that I no longer live in SF, I can give away my secret anchorage: Horseshoe Cove (or Bay), off the N tower of the GG Bridge. There's a small marina there and a CG station. Plenty of room for at least six boats to anchor in the middle. I was almost always the ONLY boat and I'd go there a few times a month. I liked it better than Clipper Cove which was closer to our marina in Alameda, 'cuz I got to sail there!


Once some bozo came in and anchored right upwind of me. I kept an eye on him, and when the afternoon winds started up at 1700 (I usually got there after a nice early afternoon sail by 1500) he started dragging. I got up on my bow and started 5 horns at him. He got closer, and closer and closer. Still had no clue. By this time I didn't have the chance to up my anchor because 1) he was over mine and heading my way! and 2) I don't have a windlass and couldn't in the 15 knot winds (which my anchor system has no trouble with designed for 42 knots).

When he got right beside me, I simply smiled at him. As he continued on by.
Good thing he didn't hit my rode.
He finally got the idea!


Only time in 25 years in N California that I've ever had ANY issue, and I anchored out a couple of times a month for over 15 of those 25 years.


Interestingly enough, with all the boats in SF, except for Summer Solstice and Fleet Week, it's rare to see people anchored out. I don't think most folks know how to do it. I confirmed that with my friends: I proposed an anchor out weekend and of the over 50 skippers in our club only five showed up!

And three of those had never done it before.



YMMV.
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Old 04-03-2019, 18:30   #73
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

I had a powerboat drag down on me in a squall before I could get anchor up. I put engine in forward and steered hard to one side dragging rode with me. Luckily i chose the correct way and he didnít snag my anchor rode on the way by. Itís a good strategy.
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Old 04-03-2019, 19:52   #74
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Does everyone have a quick way of disconnecting the bitter end of your anchor chain, and letting go with a small bouy attached?

Can save a massive damage bill in a nighttime blow, when a much bigger boat drags down on you.
Often uninsured commercial fish boats
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Old 04-03-2019, 20:10   #75
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

There is a reason I avoid charter boats and often anchor near local boats. Because locals know the way things work here. One only knows what they think they know.

For example, at one bay boats can be pulling on their anchors in three directions at the same time - NE, SE, WNW. This is because of the unique landscape / bay formation and wind and wave action. The katabatic wind action coming down over the dips in the valley can be extreme and in excess of 20-30+ kts. It can be dead calm with boats floating listlessly in all directions in glass like water conditions one minute then it blows suddenly and then the boats are like projectiles. When I warn other boaters they are too close or have too much chain out they answer we will all move in rhythm. In summer it is extremely busy and boats anchor close and having too much rode out can cause problems like the boat that hit me. Boats will put out 60m of chain in 5/6m of water because they are worried about the Meltemi / Katabatic winds. They think lots of chain out is safe. I rarely use more than a 5:1 and do not move. It really comes down to the anchor.

In one bay known for fierce winds, we anchor bows to west and sterns tied east to the rocks. One day the winds will blow from the north and our bows will move south. The next day it will blow from the south and our bows will move north. So one day a large cat anchors to my starboard and after a day in town I come back to see my bow has moved south and the cat crew suggest I re-anchor. Knowing better I along with the boat port to me pull in a bit of chain and adjust our two stern lines. 4am I awake to the large cat pushing on my boat and pulling my anchor out. They (charter captain and wife) are freaking out and ask me to untie their stern lines. Against my better judgement I jump in the water and untie them to get them off of my boat. Never asked why they did not wake up the hubby and son? No time to discuss as I wanted them off my boat.

At another bay a flotilla of five large charter boats anchor over my anchor. I asked them to move to which they say if there is a problem after dinner they will deal with it. I would have moved but assumed they were over my chain. As it is getting dark I am thinking it will be a long night. The winds start up we are close to hitting (as I described above) since they did not understand anchoring in the bay and misjudged where my anchor was. I choose to move as I can almost touch their boat. Well as it turns out they had hooked my anchor and being such a large profile they were pulling on my chain. I had to pull my anchor up and struggled to free myself and nearly broke my hand in the process. In the process I lost my anchor since my swivel broke because the force of the weight had bent it and the pin had broken.

These two event happened closely together and is the reason I no longer use a swivel. I have a new Kong swivel but choose not to use it. During a previous storm that caused a lot of damage to other boats and minor damage to my boat, my kedge anchor saved me. The shackle was an 8mm no name brand and the pin was bent from the force of the storm but held. I now use 12mm and 10mm wichard shackles and have full confidence in them.

Difficult to avoid other boats in a busy place but knowing the conditions of a place is more important than thinking you know something based on your limited experience as every place is different.

Also not so easy moving and re-anchoring as every time you do, you risk fowling your anchor as there is so much junk on the floor bed here. Everyday I see boats diving to free their anchors. I myself had my anchor caught on an old underwater cable once and could not free it. As it was getting late I decided to wait until morning. The katabatic winds here can be so strong that over the course of the night doing 360's my anchor was freed and and found myself dragged out. People underestimate the winds over here and get in trouble.
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