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Old 01-03-2019, 22:36   #46
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Yes people are territorial. I've accidentally anchored closer than necessary to others in the past, realized it and gone over to say I'll only be 2 days, then moving on. I've found that once you meet and talk to someone, those adverse feelings disappear, and now you're neighbors with stories to share, things in common, not adversaries.
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:37   #47
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
No damage no liability.
Any damage to either boat and you will be completely liable probably regardless of any secondary contributing factors. He was first and he warned you that you were too close.
My understanding is if you tell someone they are too close and they don't believe they are and there is damage you are at fault because you thought it was possible and did nothing about it. I'm not agreeing with it but I think that's how it works.

I anchor as far away as possible. My boat is often 180° to all the other boats nearby to the extent that I can touch another boat when on mooring buoys.

It is possible he knows something about his boat that you don't. If it was ok to move on I would if not I'd stay up.
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:27   #48
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I am shocked to read this... I thought we had worked this out amicably.

Here is MY end of that story - be careful what you put on the internet.

1) We arrive THREE days before and there is no "wind storm" predicted. You are a new cruiser. You and I are plenty of far apart - in fact we dropped our anchor several boat lengths behind you. You have every opportunity to say something over the several happy hours we had together. We all sat fine at anchor for several days.

2) You meanwhile are sweeping the anchorage with the massive amount of chain you have out, impacting not just us but all of the boats around you, including the Tayana in front of you and the commercial barge area.

3) We do end up having a wind event that lasts not more than a few hours and in a wind against tide situation EVERYONE, including yourself, is sailing at anchor. Several other boats later identify to insurance that you dragged.

4) We do have a broad side swipe, which is so limited, my little "piece of **** boat" that you called it sustained no damage and the only damage you sustain is a small chip out of your side rubrail where it impacted my rigging. I still have those pictures. I don't blame you for the drag, everyone drags and that area of the ICW is known for holding issues.

5) Afterwards we amicably discuss, apologize to each other for our mean words, and agree that insurance is the best way to handle it. So that is what we did. I call my insurance and you call yours. Pantaenius shows up and we have a conversation, pictures are taken and we both go on our own way. Both insurance companies agree this is no fault.

6) If you are so knowledgable and concerned... nobody was keeping your anchor weighed down. You are ultimately responsible for your vessel and could have picked up and moved.

If you spent two months in a boatyard literally fixing 3 inches of rubrail, you got ripped off.

I was really under the impression that this was handled amicably and that you were satisfied with the results. I think your memory of events feel a little dramatic because you were so new. Reading this really makes me thankful that we brought in insurance.

Well done!
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:47   #49
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Avoid crowded places. If you want to be among the rude, sell the boat, and move to New York City.
That's a rough thing to say. NYC folk are really small town people. I know my neighbors and local shop owners and we enjoy eachothers company. The angry people you encounter in NYC are the commuters "the bridge and tunnel people" from the suburbs. If you want to meet the real NYC people be there after 7 PM on a warm summer weekday night.
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:54   #50
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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That's a rough thing to say. NYC folk are really small town people. I know my neighbors and local shop owners and we enjoy eachothers company. The angry people you encounter in NYC are the commuters "the bridge and tunnel people" from the suburbs. If you want to meet the real NYC people be there after 7 PM on a warm summer weekday night.
In European waters i find that the principle of the first to anchor having priority (unless they drag) usually works. In order for me and others to know where my anchor is i now have an anchor buoy. Eliminates the doubt and probably avoids any arguments. It also helps a new arrival wishing to anchor who can immediately see where yr anchor is. Scope? I usually put out 5:1 (all 10mm chain). This would be for a stay of 1-5days. In a bit of a blow i would probably increase this to 6-7:1 if there is enough space and at the same time someone in the cockpit on anchor watch w a vhf. I tried various Apps for anchor watch but not confident they work very well.
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Old 02-03-2019, 06:52   #51
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Whew! The amount of responses. If I get talked to politely, or yelled at, I sit on the bow for a while and see how we settle. Like most Hunters we errr Hunt at anchor. Sometimes I move, or stay put and show that I know what I'm doing...depends. In Cape May waiting for weather, a power boater hollered at us we were in the channel. Next morning Coast Guard hailed us to move we were at the edge. Just thanked them and moved a bit.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:08   #52
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

And sometimes hollering is simply speaking loud enough to be heard :-)
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Old 02-03-2019, 15:04   #53
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Make clearerBy coincidence just had first Incident at Anchor, been here 3 weeks, had issues with dragging anchor went to least preferred place next to a steely. He not bothered all this time, got no closer than 30m. Until this morning, heard a noise during night went out to investigate, found his Dinghy bow extension ( Dinghy hanging off Davit) caught between my chain and stem.

Was change of tide situation.
Later I checked my stem and went and reported to him no damage, he reported to me, his SS davit arm (Port where I had hit) and strut have been bent. Seems like a reasonable fellow.


Don't believe either boat dragged, but he did reveil that he had 40m of chain out little more than I would have thought.


Bugger, I accept I anchored last, but neither he nor I saw any possibility of touching. Somewhat complicated he leaving OS in a few days, me moving up the coast, think I have to offer something, but what.
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Old 02-03-2019, 15:35   #54
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Originally Posted by Oceanride007 View Post
Make clearerBy coincidence just had first Incident at Anchor, been here 3 weeks, had issues with dragging anchor went to least preferred place next to a steely. He not bothered all this time, got no closer than 30m. Until this morning, heard a noise during night went out to investigate, found his Dinghy bow extension ( Dinghy hanging off Davit) caught between my chain and stem.

Was change of tide situation.
Later I checked my stem and went and reported to him no damage, he reported to me, his SS davit arm (Port where I had hit) and strut have been bent. Seems like a reasonable fellow.


Don't believe either boat dragged, but he did reveil that he had 40m of chain out little more than I would have thought.


Bugger, I accept I anchored last, but neither he nor I saw any possibility of touching. Somewhat complicated he leaving OS in a few days, me moving up the coast, think I have to offer something, but what.
Since you admit it was your fault it’s up to you to ask what he thinks would be reasonable restitution. If he is requesting more than you feel comfortable with then it’s time to involve your insurance carrier. Accidents happen and life goes on.
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Old 02-03-2019, 16:22   #55
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

There’s no “rights”

In the end the boat most scared has to move.

Just because some living in fear anchor nut is in the middle of the anchorage with a 10:1 scope doesn’t mean he owns the anchorage. Be reasonable and stand your ground.
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Old 02-03-2019, 16:25   #56
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

When we were in Virgin Islands on a charter boat we dropped anchor what I felt was a decent distance from all other boats. But we soon got yelled at by a boat who felt we were too close to him. We moved and re-anchored in another spot further away. Then a French crew came in and anchored easily twice as close to him as where we had been. Again he was on deck yelling. They completely ignored him, and then all got into their dinghy and motored into shore to visit the local beach bar leaving their boat where it was.

I thought it was rude of the new boat, but have to admit I experienced a guilty joy in how the situation played out in the end.
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Old 02-03-2019, 16:40   #57
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
There’s no “rights”

In the end the boat most scared has to move.

Just because some living in fear anchor nut is in the middle of the anchorage with a 10:1 scope doesn’t mean he owns the anchorage. Be reasonable and stand your ground.


My most negative experience was exactly this scenario.

Mid-sized anchorage. Could easily accommodate six or eight boats with a little effort. I come in. There is one small (~28-footer) anchored right in the middle. No problem, I go as far away as I can, and well off to one side.

I get my gear down, and are all nicely snugged in when Mr Grump-Pants starts complained we’re too close. We’re over a 100’ away, so I tell him to chill (gently, politely, of course ). He then starts in that he’s got “like a 150 feet of rode out!" He’s anchored in no more than 12 feet, with no serious weather approaching .

At that point I tell him he’s got way too much rode out, but (doing the math) I decide we can’t still connect. So I ignore him and go about my business.

The passive-aggressive babbling continues from the other boat, and soon I can hear a female voice trying to calm the Mr down. She seems to be agreeing with me, which makes Mr even grumpier.

I am just about to invite them over for drinks, partly b/c I now feel for this poor woman who has to deal with this, ‘person.' But then I notice he’s hauling in his anchor. I watch, and it’s clear he has maybe 80 feet out at the most. So he either had no idea how much scope he had, or he was lying in an effort to keep the whole anchorage to himself.
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Old 02-03-2019, 17:01   #58
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Originally Posted by carlylelk View Post
This is what happened to us.

1. We're anchored and a new boat comes to the crowded anchorage and anchors to close to us and close to the marked channel. I tell them there is a windstorm predicted in two days.

2. I politely ask them to move. They are adamant that there is enough room for them, and they promise to keep an eye out. They insist that they know what they're doing and I should just relax.

3. Two days later the windstorm arrives, on schedule. They are sailing hard on their anchor in the wind and hit us about 8pm, in the dark with nobody on their deck. I spend two months in the boatyard for repairs, and they end up not covering any of the costs.

Lesson learned: If I think you're anchored too close, and you're such an a%%h%%le that you refuse to move, then I will have to. It beats spending two months in the boatyard and one hell of a big pile of dollars.

Lesson 2: If you think because they hit you they will pay, you will learn the hard way.

Lesson 3: If you see a Cabo Rico with green trim, somewhere on the Florida east coast, don't be anchored anywhere near them in a storm.... they are not good sailors or decent people.
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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I am shocked to read this... I thought we had worked this out amicably.

Here is MY end of that story - be careful what you put on the internet.

1) We arrive THREE days before and there is no "wind storm" predicted. You are a new cruiser. You and I are plenty of far apart - in fact we dropped our anchor several boat lengths behind you. You have every opportunity to say something over the several happy hours we had together. We all sat fine at anchor for several days.

2) You meanwhile are sweeping the anchorage with the massive amount of chain you have out, impacting not just us but all of the boats around you, including the Tayana in front of you and the commercial barge area.

3) We do end up having a wind event that lasts not more than a few hours and in a wind against tide situation EVERYONE, including yourself, is sailing at anchor. Several other boats later identify to insurance that you dragged.

4) We do have a broad side swipe, which is so limited, my little "piece of **** boat" that you called it sustained no damage and the only damage you sustain is a small chip out of your side rubrail where it impacted my rigging. I still have those pictures. I don't blame you for the drag, everyone drags and that area of the ICW is known for holding issues.

5) Afterwards we amicably discuss, apologize to each other for our mean words, and agree that insurance is the best way to handle it. So that is what we did. I call my insurance and you call yours. Pantaenius shows up and we have a conversation, pictures are taken and we both go on our own way. Both insurance companies agree this is no fault.

6) If you are so knowledgable and concerned... nobody was keeping your anchor weighed down. You are ultimately responsible for your vessel and could have picked up and moved.

If you spent two months in a boatyard literally fixing 3 inches of rubrail, you got ripped off.

I was really under the impression that this was handled amicably and that you were satisfied with the results. I think your memory of events feel a little dramatic because you were so new. Reading this really makes me thankful that we brought in insurance.
Funny isn't it how every so often the demeaning one sided post of someone is brought into balance with the other viewpoint, in this occasion with pictures, posted a little later. Thanks zboss for the balanced polite reply.
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Old 02-03-2019, 20:45   #59
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post


My most negative experience was exactly this scenario.

Mid-sized anchorage. Could easily accommodate six or eight boats with a little effort. I come in. There is one small (~28-footer) anchored right in the middle. No problem, I go as far away as I can, and well off to one side.

I get my gear down, and are all nicely snugged in when Mr Grump-Pants starts complained we’re too close. We’re over a 100’ away, so I tell him to chill (gently, politely, of course ). He then starts in that he’s got “like a 150 feet of rode out!" He’s anchored in no more than 12 feet, with no serious weather approaching .

At that point I tell him he’s got way too much rode out, but (doing the math) I decide we can’t still connect. So I ignore him and go about my business.

The passive-aggressive babbling continues from the other boat, and soon I can hear a female voice trying to calm the Mr down. She seems to be agreeing with me, which makes Mr even grumpier.

I am just about to invite them over for drinks, partly b/c I now feel for this poor woman who has to deal with this, ‘person.' But then I notice he’s hauling in his anchor. I watch, and it’s clear he has maybe 80 feet out at the most. So he either had no idea how much scope he had, or he was lying in an effort to keep the whole anchorage to himself.

Just for laughs, I would have invited the female over for drinks.
Let Mister Grumpy Pants stew in his own juices ! lol
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Old 03-03-2019, 00:16   #60
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Hasn't happened to me in the year we owned our boat here in the Med, tho there have been some super close situations nobody gave two turds about... but if it does come up, I have the idea to pull up my laser range-finder and shoot the distance between us. Often, especially people who don't sail much or charter, might fall for that trick of boating that makes one think the shore or other boats are MUCH closer than they are. If I can tell them they're actually 40 meters away when they think it's only a boat length, maybe that'll help...
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