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Old 01-03-2019, 10:53   #31
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Originally Posted by carlylelk View Post
This is what happened to us.

1. We're anchored and a new boat comes to the crowded anchorage and anchors to close to us and close to the marked channel. I tell them there is a windstorm predicted in two days.

2. I politely ask them to move. They are adamant that there is enough room for them, and they promise to keep an eye out. They insist that they know what they're doing and I should just relax.

3. Two days later the windstorm arrives, on schedule. They are sailing hard on their anchor in the wind and hit us about 8pm, in the dark with nobody on their deck. I spend two months in the boatyard for repairs, and they end up not covering any of the costs.

Lesson learned: If I think you're anchored too close, and you're such an a%%h%%le that you refuse to move, then I will have to. It beats spending two months in the boatyard and one hell of a big pile of dollars.

Lesson 2: If you think because they hit you they will pay, you will learn the hard way.

Lesson 3: If you see a Cabo Rico with green trim, somewhere on the Florida east coast, don't be anchored anywhere near them in a storm.... they are not good sailors or decent people.
I am shocked to read this... I thought we had worked this out amicably.

Here is MY end of that story - be careful what you put on the internet.

1) We arrive THREE days before and there is no "wind storm" predicted. You are a new cruiser. You and I are plenty of far apart - in fact we dropped our anchor several boat lengths behind you. You have every opportunity to say something over the several happy hours we had together. We all sat fine at anchor for several days.

2) You meanwhile are sweeping the anchorage with the massive amount of chain you have out, impacting not just us but all of the boats around you, including the Tayana in front of you and the commercial barge area.

3) We do end up having a wind event that lasts not more than a few hours and in a wind against tide situation EVERYONE, including yourself, is sailing at anchor. Several other boats later identify to insurance that you dragged.

4) We do have a broad side swipe, which is so limited, my little "piece of **** boat" that you called it sustained no damage and the only damage you sustain is a small chip out of your side rubrail where it impacted my rigging. I still have those pictures. I don't blame you for the drag, everyone drags and that area of the ICW is known for holding issues.

5) Afterwards we amicably discuss, apologize to each other for our mean words, and agree that insurance is the best way to handle it. So that is what we did. I call my insurance and you call yours. Pantaenius shows up and we have a conversation, pictures are taken and we both go on our own way. Both insurance companies agree this is no fault.

6) If you are so knowledgable and concerned... nobody was keeping your anchor weighed down. You are ultimately responsible for your vessel and could have picked up and moved.

If you spent two months in a boatyard literally fixing 3 inches of rubrail, you got ripped off.

I was really under the impression that this was handled amicably and that you were satisfied with the results. I think your memory of events feel a little dramatic because you were so new. Reading this really makes me thankful that we brought in insurance.
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:00   #32
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Originally Posted by BugzyCan View Post
That's awesome and a great tip. Now everyone is going to be doing this. lol
I guess I really didn't think that through!!!!
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:26   #33
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Man, I'm on the boat doing projects.... only checking in from time to time.

But this thread grew legs, and now I'm gonna have to make some popcorn.
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:42   #34
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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..... I once was in that situation (calm weather) and ended up rafted with neighbors on each side. What a party! Pretty women, whiskey and weed. Oh my the memories are still sweet.
Yep!!!


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Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY View Post
What if you offer to raft up to them so they don't have to worry about your anchoring?!
And....yep!!!

We offer that even as a temporary 'if all else fails'. We've done it before. Boaters are friendly and its fun to meet new people.

We had people anchor on top of us a few years ago. They were so close we could have passed a beer from bow to stern when we wagged past. We discussed it and determined there was no threat. We had a few drinks and socialized that evening. They're now our best friends. We even spend holidays (a few Thanksgivings, Easter, NYE) with them.
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:18   #35
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

If I enter an anchorage later in the day, get in close to another, and see the skipper giving me the eye, I always engage him in a conversation about what scope he has out. I tell him I'll match his, so we can swing together and be safe. I find that, usually, engaging another sailor in solving an anchoring problem together gets us on the same side - and gives us both comfort that we're OK.
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Old 01-03-2019, 13:55   #36
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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.

2) I inform them how much scope I have, then ask them how much scope they have. (In this order. Again people are willing to share more amicably if you share information first).

I do that as well, but what are you supposed to do when the answer comes back,


"What's 'scope'?"


Don't laugh, I've heard that more than once.
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Old 01-03-2019, 14:10   #37
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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I do that as well, but what are you supposed to do when the answer comes back,


"What's 'scope'?"


Don't laugh, I've heard that more than once.
Just say its the mouthwash you use to calculate holding power
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Old 01-03-2019, 14:41   #38
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

First, every Admiralty ruling I have ever read says that the first person pretty much has the right to anchor anyway they want, using as much scope as they want, and two anchors, if they want. Until they drag, they have a right to the space and you need to keep clear. Not personal space, just enough so you do not strike.



If they start to drag, they give up all rights.


But here is the tough part, and all insurance companies I talked to mumbled about it; how do you prove, weeks later, who dragged? Witnesses don't mean much, since they could be wrong. It all gets complicated. So they simply advise to stay clear.



In the end, it is generally a s__t storm of unprovable finger pointing.


---


My only experiences with contact have been gentle, and when someone showed up I put fenders out which prevented damage. But I was annoyed, because both times they were drunk and careless. Other times I moved.


"But it's crowded" is never much of an answer. Are you SURE you can't do something better?

* Go to a marina
* Move
* Use two anchors and get off to the far side.
* Find bulkhead


Figure something out. Sometimes it's complicated.




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Old 01-03-2019, 14:48   #39
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

OP,

Some people are anchorage hogs who let out ridiculous amounts of chain for the conditions. I’ve had people wave and call for more space when they’re 200-300ft away, only to find out when they leave, that they’ve had over 400ft of chain out in 20ft of water.

There’s no right answer without being there to see the situation.

Good luck.
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Old 01-03-2019, 14:55   #40
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Its gets better... Here is a picture of us both in the anchorage. Him to the right, me to the left. You can see how much space between us? Meanwhile, see how close he is getting to the boat behind him.
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Old 01-03-2019, 14:56   #41
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

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Originally Posted by boatman1 View Post
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I once was in that situation (calm weather) and ended up rafted with neighbors on each side. What a party! Pretty women, whiskey and weed. Oh my the memories are still sweet.

Memories like that are what keeps us going. Nice.


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Old 01-03-2019, 15:22   #42
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Year's ago, while anchored in Singapore a sail boat anchored next to me, they were in normal condition's away far enough, but i knew when the tide changed, it would be current against wind, and the anchored boat's would be doing circles, and there was a chance we would collide, so off they went to check in with customs, ect., indeed, the condition's changed, and there vessel came along side of me, i had fender's out, and tied them along side, when they returned, they couldn't believe what they saw, i ended up buying the vessel.
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Old 01-03-2019, 15:22   #43
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

I too have been on both sides of this, and have used a variety of strategies to overcome erroneous objections - that's objections you know are being made by someone who obviously has no clue what they are doing. I wouldn't say that I lie, but I have been know to come up with a viable solution in the spur of the moment.

Like others, when I first get that screaming loonie thinking I am too close, I first introduce myself. I tell them how much rode I'll be putting out. Then, I ask them which direction they set, and how much scope they have out.

Once I have that, I do a number of things. If they seem reasonable, a simple comment about there being more than enough swing will suffice. If that doesn't appease them, I tell them I am well insured, and ask them if they are as well. Usually, they don't answer and go below.

And if that doesn't work, I grab something - one time I used my TV remote - hold it up as if to take a distance reading, then give them a number, claiming we are in no danger. Something about technology that novices trust.

I have also been anchored - most times with 2 anchors out - and have someone set their anchor right across one of mine. When I brought this up to one captain, he immediately started to haul his anchor in. It promptly snagged my rode and started bringing our boats together.

Like someone else said, I hollered to my crew, "Fenders! Starboard and bow! STAT! Prepare for collision!!" With my crew suddenly scurrying about the deck, he quickly grew a brain and asked me what he should to.

I suggested he reverse course and let the anchor slip off my rode. "And if you are are still hooked, you may have to cut your rode, because I set mine deep, and you just dragged it deeper."

Amazing how the prospect of losing his anchor motivated him to action.
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Old 01-03-2019, 15:27   #44
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

First one in has rights till he drags.

If for no other reason than that you may need that "right" some time.

It is we, each of us, who are responsible for keeping the cruising community a pleasant place, and so we must treat others in the way we would hope to be treated, and according to local customs for guests But if we want the whole community to be pleasant, then we must be so, even when aggravated. And, sometimes this means really inconveniencing yourself, maybe sailing the night through to go somewhere else on a clear course, it may not be EASY, but it is still necessary, for the welfare of your boat, self, and crew.

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Old 01-03-2019, 15:31   #45
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Re: When neighboring boat disagrees

Avoid crowded places. If you want to be among the rude, sell the boat, and move to New York City.
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