Well, Key West is a dump... moving on

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I think that people coming to Key West from lilly-white squeaky clean suburbia are the ones who find it a "dump"

oh i get it have you been there in august when it smells like a combination of vomit and old beer? and the weirdos seem to creep out of the shadows at around midnite until sunrise? yeh it was a cool place in 1972 but that was then and this is now

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by gonesail

oh i get it have you been there in august when it smells like a combination of vomit and old beer? and the weirdos seem to creep out of the shadows at around midnite until sunrise? yeh it was a cool place in 1972 but that was then and this is now

Well then we do have different criteria for "fun". I've been visiting Key West for the past 20 years, both by boat and by land. Keep returning for the funky atmosphere, chilled out vibes and the feeling that I am somewhere in a foreign land (which novadays is quite rare stateside). Last year I have visited Sanibel Island for the first and probably the last time as I found it to be very boring, bland and sort of like one big open air nursing home under the palm trees. Sure it was cleaner than Key West. The same way an operating room in the hospital is cleaner than a muddy unkempt playground. But I'd still rather be at the playground.

[DeepFrz]

Homelessness is a huge problem in the US. It is a big problem in Canada as well, though maybe not as visible. The economic downturn a few years ago made the problem much much worse than previous and it was bad before then. I recently read where one of the states or maybe a city, I'm not sure was building a number of small, one room, self enclosed homes for homeless people. They had to pay something for the rent but I don't recall the details. It seemed to be working to help people get back on their feet. I suppose where that isn't available and a more moderate climate then a boat could be a way to find safe shelter.

[Oceanbrew]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I think that people coming to Key West from lilly-white squeaky clean suburbia are the ones who find it a "dump". Any one form NYC or SF will probably not even notice much difference in the funkyness of the place. Also my take on KW population is that they had to come from somewhere. Most likely escaped from the outward tranquility of the bland and psychologically opressive suburban living where freedoms were replaced by HOA and zoning rules long time ago. These are your children, brothers, sisters and parents Mr. and Mrs. Suburbanite. They're not "cesspool" but a logical product of the homogenization of society which had lost its capacity and compassion for the different among us. And had only learned the fake response of "accepting diversity" while deep down hating it and being afraid of it, which we see in our politics daily. But I bet you that the cops in Key West don't shoot a bum as quickly or as easily as the cops in St. Louis' suburbs. So I'm not sure where the real cesspool is after all.

Well stated.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[ShaktisBoy]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I think that people coming to Key West from lilly-white squeaky clean suburbia are the ones who find it a "dump". Any one form NYC or SF will probably not even notice much difference in the funkyness of the place. Also my take on KW population is that they had to come from somewhere. Most likely escaped from the outward tranquility of the bland and psychologically opressive suburban living where freedoms were replaced by HOA and zoning rules long time ago. These are your children, brothers, sisters and parents Mr. and Mrs. Suburbanite. They're not "cesspool" but a logical product of the homogenization of society which had lost its capacity and compassion for the different among us. And had only learned the fake response of "accepting diversity" while deep down hating it and being afraid of it, which we see in our politics daily. But I bet you that the cops in Key West don't shoot a bum as quickly or as easily as the cops in St. Louis' suburbs. So I'm not sure where the real cesspool is after all.

Exactly!



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[dpddj]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Homelessness is a huge problem in the US. It is a big problem in Canada as well, though maybe not as visible.

Don't you read the newspapers? The USA economy is booming, unemployment is at its lowest in years, we have so many job openings that we are bringing in many, many thousands of people from overseas and south of the border. With all these incredible opportunities there should be close to zero homelessness.

And if you believe that, I have this bridge......

I wish it was an April Fool's joke but sadly, it isn't. It's called spin.

[Sailinnole]

I've been visiting Key West for the better part of 10 years now and all I can say is that I enjoy it and it has a fond place in my heart. For those upset that KW isnt' the place it was 40 years ago...well, that is likely quite true...many places aren't...but then again, are you the same person you were 40 years ago? I'd wager not...

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by dpddj

Don't you read the newspapers? The USA economy is booming, unemployment is at its lowest in years, we have so many job openings that we are bringing in many, many thousands of people from overseas and south of the border. With all these incredible opportunities there should be close to zero homelessness.

And if you believe that, I have this bridge......

I wish it was an April Fool's joke but sadly, it isn't. It's called spin.

There are many jobs available in my area. I see signs in front of businesses and they even have job fairs from time to time. There's no excuse to be jobless or homeless.

The problem is, many people have removed themselves from the job market. Some are mentally ill and that's understandable. Many years ago, these mentally ill people were placed in institutions and cared for. Apparently, that was against their civil rights so now they are just left to themselves to find food and shelter.

Most of the jobless and homeless are this way of their own choosing. They choose drugs over food and shelter, they are too lazy to take a job and show up every day, they have chosen hair styles and tattoos that offend prospective employers and they failed to take advantage of the free public education made available to them by the government.

Once people put themselves into this lifestyle, it's rare that they turn around and become productive citizens.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by rwidman

There are many jobs available in my area. I see signs in front of businesses and they even have job fairs from time to time. There's no excuse to be jobless or homeless.

Often times your right, many people are jobless etc., because they want to be.
However when I look back at my life I see that there were times that my life could have been changed drastically for the worse, truthfully just due to luck more than anything else it didn't happen that way.
I think a lot of us in our younger years did something that if we had been unlucky enough to have been caught at, and if we had gone before a Judge that was determined to make a statement, our lives would be drastically different.
I was injured severely when I was 17, turned a farm tractor over on myself, and again, just by luck I didn't end up disabled, at 17, with no job skills.
I honestly look at a homeless person, and see myself. It's I think a fine line that separates us.

[rwidman]

Yes, it could be a fine line. I can look back to the day I happened to see a help wanted ad in the paper that launched my 31 year career. If I hadn't picked up the paper that day there's no telling where I would be now.

But:

I worked in a public high school for the last several years of that career. I watched many of the "students" prepare themselves for failure by skipping class, skipping school or just being disruptive in class and pulling the rest of the class down.

The government (financed by the working people) will be supporting these people their entire lives, either on welfare or in prison.

[accomplice]

To each, his own. For me, KW is the only place that is tolerable in S. Florida -- I'm not into chain restaurants and strip malls. Last time I was there 14 months ago -- not on a boat -- it still had a great vibe, excellent restaurants, and interesting architecture and gardens.

My mother and her boyfriend visited our boat when it was down in St. Marten this winter. He had never been out of the US before. He was struck by what he called poverty -- others of us who had travelled a lot didn't see it as poor at all. It depends on what you're used to and what your tastes are.

I would hope that here amongst part-time, full-time and wannabe cruisers there would be more acceptance for life paths off the straight and narrow.

[RainDog]

It is not the liveaboards that have changed Key West. It is the cruise ships.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Often times your right, many people are jobless etc., because they want to be.
However when I look back at my life I see that there were times that my life could have been changed drastically for the worse, truthfully just due to luck more than anything else it didn't happen that way.
I think a lot of us in our younger years did something that if we had been unlucky enough to have been caught at, and if we had gone before a Judge that was determined to make a statement, our lives would be drastically different.
I was injured severely when I was 17, turned a farm tractor over on myself, and again, just by luck I didn't end up disabled, at 17, with no job skills.
I honestly look at a homeless person, and see myself. It's I think a fine line that separates us.

This is so true. It is scary what we are doing to the current generation by labeling 7 year olds kissing an 8 year olds "sexual predators". Or middle school kids drawing pictures of handguns in school - "terrorist threats". I look back at the antics me and my high school buddies did back when with shudder - had we done those today we'd all be in jail for a long time. Instead, my very circle of close friends from that time has - 1 attorney, 1 plastic surgeon, 3 owners of successful businesses and one lowly IT programmer (although a tech lead for an IT team servicing huge investment fund of a leading Ivy league university). How many of potential such successes are we sacrificing today on the altar of fear and political correctness?

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by rwidman

There are many jobs available in my area. I see signs in front of businesses and they even have job fairs from time to time. There's no excuse to be jobless or homeless.

The problem is the high cost of housing no matter where you live. And this is an artifically created high cost. Where the housing is cheap so are the jobs there don't pay much. Where the jobs pay well the housing is absurdly unaffordable to those at the lower rings of the economic ladder.

And look how we want to treat those who try to escape this catch-22 by living aboard their cheap boats. We ostracise them and try to deny them their right to live less expensively than the rest of us. That same mentality is at work as NIMBY when city and towns, at the prodding of their RE brokerage and banking industry, keep housing costs high by denying the land owners their right to build upon their lots as they see fit.

Bet you anything that if the building/zoning codes were concerned ONLY with the structural sturdiness of the buildings being built and nothing else (no lot set backs, no limits as to the height, number of dwellings, etc, etc) the market for housing would magically balance itself out and would become affordable for the vast majority of the population. And yes the now homeless and very poor may have to squeeze into tiny and less than stellar spaces but that's infinitely better than living on the street or staying in homeless shelters. After all pepole have the inherent right to choose to live in less than stellar conditions but at a cost they can afford or to slave all their lives to live in a house owned by someone else, either a bank or a landlord, just because they can't afford a house truly of their own, i.e. paid up and mortgage free.

[rwidman]

Housing can be pretty cheap in my area. It has been reported that 20% of people in SC live in trailers. There are expensive areas of course but plenty of inexpensive housing. And of course, there are rooming houses and sharing an apartment or home.

I think some young people expect to start at the top with a nice home and a nice car. It doesn't work that way so they don't try.