Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-02-2015, 22:34   #61
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,712
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Some thoughts:

1) Friend had a detached retina happen 2 days out of Noumea, singlehanded from NZ. Now his admiral requires he take crew. In the event, he was taken off the boat, and the admiral and her brother sailed it back in the rest of the way. So there are hazards to singlehanding that one may not anticipate, so having a soon-to-be friend along seems a good idea to me, and I agree with Dockhead that roland will be able to quickly train a crew to be adequate at watch standing, especially to Phil's standard (Boatie).

Now, Vancouver Is, Alert Bay, is in Canada, and we don't know when roland wants to leave for Hawaii. Jim's and my trip from SF to HI and back, took place in July and Aug. Right now, you'd have winter storms to contend with, although the west coast of the US is warming up nicely, according to reports. The trip should be mostly off the wind; it is the return trip that is the tougher, especially in a not-so-weatherly vessel.

There is probably a CF'er out there who would like the experience of going along on the passage roland proposes, so long as it is not made at a really bad time of year. Incorporating what Delancey wrote, about lost income, plus large expenses for doing his delivery last year makes me think that return airfare should be paid by the skipper, and especially so, if he asks the crew to chip in towards stores. For the purpose of this post, I am assuming that roland would be a safe skipper, and having the boat set up for short-handed sailing is a definite bonus.

Roland, actually, I think a biddable novice is a better bet than someone with lots of qualifications, you're looking for someone with honesty and integrity who wants to take advantage of all the effort you've put into making your boat and yourself ready. I hope your rants in your thread are not a common part of your personality. I wouldn't sail with a screamer, and certainly not for 3 weeks' passage.

No matter what kind of a passage you have, I think you and your crew will both take back lots of memories, mostly good. There will probably be breakages, but not so much on the downwind leg as the return.

Ann, sailor since 1978
__________________

__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 00:07   #62
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 202
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

I don't think your expectations are out of line. More like you're looking for a very narrow set of people willing/able to fulfill them.

They:
  • Must be able to afford a month or more away from home with no income (able to pay existing bills)
  • Must be able to take that leave of absence on your schedule/time-line
  • Need some qualifications
  • Must be able to afford the transportation and other expenses while transiting and not working to earn anything (able to pay additional bills)
  • Are willing to gamble a significant amount of time spent on a boat in the middle of nowhere (no chance of escape) with a stranger
That seems to leave two types.
  1. The younger folks who aren't in school at the moment and don't have so much as an apartment to pay for each month. Oh yes, but they also need sailing experience...And they need not worry about money/bills while gone. Not common amongst the "regular class"
  2. Retirees - who if they are at all into sailing, typically have their own boat? And while they may be the most flexible on time and money they are also the least likely to just take-off for an extended period of time with a stranger?
So - while your request may be reasonable, I just don't see a large potential candidate pool.

Perhaps another way to say it is, you're looking for people to participate in a pretty serious adventure on a whim, but who also have all their ducks-in-a-row at home. Uncommon combination in my experience.

PS: I give the initial rant an 8 too - /bravo
__________________

__________________
Sondor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 01:28   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,886
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

I'll give this one more try. I don't think you are a bad person or trying to trick someone. I believe you are being honest about not looking for crew in the traditional sense but friends to share in the adventure...but...you have to consider it from the other side:

I think the problem you run into particularly with internet postings is they think job when you start asking about experience and skill sets. When they read a 1 paragraph description of what you are looking for they didn't see this long thread explaining how you aren't looking for crew and and you aren't looking for paying passengers...the assumption is you are looking for an employee. All be it, an informal employee with limited compensation but an employee. They probably have no clue what the going rate is for able bodied seaman but being expected to pay you for doing a job doesn't sound right.

If you want to weed out those looking for compensation of some sort, you must be very explicit about it but if you still expect a level of experience, that will drastically reduce the pool of interested applicants as others have pointed out.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 09:06   #64
Registered User
 
crazyoldboatguy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Boat: Alden auxiliary ketch 48'
Posts: 858
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

I am curious as to how some folks work this out. I have family and friends who would love to come on a cruise and I could work out those arrangements. If my wife and I wanted to share our boat with folks and seeking a commitment of an extended period of time - a long passage or some time in a more remote area not near easy to access transportation (the south pacific, for example), how does one go about that? Given what folks mention here it is unlikely to just go to a crewing website and pick out some young backpacker type or a retiree and have them pay their way to and from.

So how does one do that in a manner that provides some protection for both parties until they meet and greet? What if I send money or tickets to someone in the hopes they arrive at the airport to start their adventure only to never see the person, etc? I could see saying - "hey, dude, you pay your way here and I'll pay your way back", or some such. But that doesn't sound particularly welcoming either. Sounds like the beginning of a "B" movie.

Some folks here make it sound easy. "we just meet people and invite them aboard". I suspect many of those encounters are really day sails and not for long passage.

I will be making my vessel more or less single handing ready so won't need some folks with a high degree of capability. Having never done this before other than for day sails I am just curious how folks "hook up", as it were.
__________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
crazyoldboatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 09:45   #65
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco and Australia
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 1,979
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
This is getting silly and I am going back to rant mode; to put it VERY Clearly for everyone

I DO NOT NEED CREW. I AM A SOLO SAILOR. MY BOAT IS DESIGNED THAT WAY. I HAVE SAILED THOUSAND MILE PLUS VOYAGES SOLO. ON THIS TRIP I AM INVITING COMPANY JUST BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT. IF NOBODY SUITABLE OFFERS I WILL SAIL IT SOLO.

So please stop going on about how I should pay my guests.
We only invite friends and only for fixed (read short) periods. I cannot think of a plus in having crew. I'll gladly do the extra watches. If we're not ready to go we stay.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 10:46   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tortola
Posts: 700
Images: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to bvimatelot Send a message via Skype™ to bvimatelot
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

If ever I make any comments on a forthcoming delivery on CF, I get a plethora of pm's from people who would love to do it. Over the years, I've taken quite a few, some of them on quite a few deliveries. They've all become good friends - and better more confident sailors. I'm lucky though and have no horror stories to recount. Lately I seem to have been doing a lot more "Owner-Assists", where the dynamic is obviously slightly different...they've all worked out fine though (woops - except for the Australian alcoholic, his alcoholic mate, and his weird son....I think the last straw was finding out that he'd only just come out of prison for murdering his wife - maybe this is why the son was a bit weird?) Tony
__________________
bvimatelot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 11:24   #67
Registered User
 
crazyoldboatguy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Boat: Alden auxiliary ketch 48'
Posts: 858
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvimatelot View Post
If ever I make any comments on a forthcoming delivery on CF, I get a plethora of pm's from people who would love to do it. Over the years, I've taken quite a few, some of them on quite a few deliveries. They've all become good friends - and better more confident sailors. I'm lucky though and have no horror stories to recount. Lately I seem to have been doing a lot more "Owner-Assists", where the dynamic is obviously slightly different...they've all worked out fine though (woops - except for the Australian alcoholic, his alcoholic mate, and his weird son....I think the last straw was finding out that he'd only just come out of prison for murdering his wife - maybe this is why the son was a bit weird?) Tony

Details - details. Did you pay for their flight to where the boat was? How did you split expenses? Since you were doing a delivery, did you pay them?

My situation would be different - not a delivery guy. But it could be helpful to know. Thanks.
__________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
crazyoldboatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 11:35   #68
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tortola
Posts: 700
Images: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to bvimatelot Send a message via Skype™ to bvimatelot
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
Details - details. Did you pay for their flight to where the boat was? How did you split expenses? Since you were doing a delivery, did you pay them?

My situation would be different - not a delivery guy. But it could be helpful to know. Thanks.
The delivery "industry" - if you can call it that - seems to have solidified into something like this:

Skipper (Me) is responsible for getting the crew to and from the boat - its sometimes in the Quotation or sometimes treated separately. In any event the Owner pays.

First Mate: Is paid, skipper is responsible but should have built it into the quote.

3rd Hand: (If required) is fed and travel expenses paid.

I have travelled with more than 3 but don't really like it (it costs me more in food for starters!) Tony
__________________
bvimatelot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 11:49   #69
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,221
Images: 2
pirate Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

But... before everyone starts assuming every 1st mate gets paid.. they do not.. unless the owner requests it and is prepared to pay.
One man bands charge for themselves... if + 1...?? usually a partner or close friend who's available and happy to do it for expense's...
Sailing with 2 unknown quantity's/quality's is a lot of stress on a skipper.. solo is much kinder to body and soul.
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 12:38   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 592
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
I don't understand this attitude. If I was looking for a paid employee (lots of experience of that) I would go to a professional crew site, look for qualifications references etc, hold interviews and pay the going rate.

If I am inviting someone to share a voyage/expedition for the fun and adventure then I am looking for someone who shares my interests and wants to do similar things. I also want them to enjoy it so want to make sure they are capable of doing what we plan (you would not ask your granny to come on a 20 mile hike would you?) We are both on holiday and I expect to treat them as a friend who is sharing the holiday. If I was proposing a mountain expedition potential expedition member would not expect me to pay them or treat them as Sherpas. Why should we treat guests on board as paid hand just because we have only just met them? It's my boat so I expect to pay for the boat and treat them as a guest which includes feeding them. But if you invite someone to your home for a holiday do you normally expect to pay their petrol to get there and buy all the drinks if you go to the pub? Basically that is what I am doing, inviting someone to come and stay with me and enjoy a sail. If you think of sailing to Hawaii as work don't come with me, get a job with a commercial crew, expect to be qualified and do it as a job.
I have done commercial work at sea, I know the difference.
I am with you here my friend. Someone here is talking about inviting folks on a cruise ship. Crew is crew, sail the boat and maintain, have fun. Employee??????
__________________
captlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 14:10   #71
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,712
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Roland,

People here who want backpackers, put up notices at the local hostels.

Good luck,

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 16:48   #72
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tortola
Posts: 700
Images: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to bvimatelot Send a message via Skype™ to bvimatelot
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
But... before everyone starts assuming every 1st mate gets paid.. they do not.. unless the owner requests it and is prepared to pay.
One man bands charge for themselves... if + 1...?? usually a partner or close friend who's available and happy to do it for expense's...
Sailing with 2 unknown quantity's/quality's is a lot of stress on a skipper.. solo is much kinder to body and soul.
I quite agree Phil - that's why I do most of my trips 2 handed. As for pay - they ain't gonna get rich on it!
__________________
bvimatelot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 16:56   #73
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,712
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Ya know, this could come down to "how much money does roland's wife pay to keep him safer?"
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 19:17   #74
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tortola
Posts: 700
Images: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to bvimatelot Send a message via Skype™ to bvimatelot
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Ya know, this could come down to "how much money does roland's wife pay to keep him safer?"
Nice one, Anne!! That might be good for a couple more pages.....
__________________
bvimatelot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2015, 20:11   #75
Registered User
 
GoingWalkabout's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA & Argentina
Boat: In the market for a Lagoon 56 (seems like the perfect fit)
Posts: 1,477
Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvimatelot View Post
If ever I make any comments on a forthcoming delivery on CF, I get a plethora of pm's from people who would love to do it. Over the years, I've taken quite a few, some of them on quite a few deliveries. They've all become good friends - and better more confident sailors. I'm lucky though and have no horror stories to recount. Lately I seem to have been doing a lot more "Owner-Assists", where the dynamic is obviously slightly different...they've all worked out fine though (woops - except for the Australian alcoholic, his alcoholic mate, and his weird son....I think the last straw was finding out that he'd only just come out of prison for murdering his wife - maybe this is why the son was a bit weird?) Tony
Oh my goodness. Did you find out about him being a murderer before the voyage or during? If during how well did you sleep? This is the craziest thing I've read on CF.
__________________

__________________
GoingWalkabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crew

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Name One Thing You Love and One Thing You Hate About Cruising ty.gregory The Sailor's Confessional 54 20-03-2015 12:10
Don't you just love Customs... boatman61 Europe & Mediterranean 41 28-08-2014 10:50
Don'tcha Just Hate it when You Do Something Stooooopid ? capngeo Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 14 20-01-2012 15:49
Don't You Just Wanna QUIT and Go Sailin' ? SaltyMonkey General Sailing Forum 32 11-08-2010 10:56
Don't Know Where to Start - But Would Love to Cruise Subguy Training, Licensing & Certification 22 13-03-2009 19:19



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.