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Old 24-02-2015, 06:50   #31
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
When I invite guests out, I expect to do all the work and I expect zero knowledge of how boats work. If they want to help trim the sails or take a turn at the wheel, that's nice but they are guests and there is no expectation. You clearly have expectations and that puts them in the relm of crew not guest. Crew expect to either get paid (if they have valuable experience) or they are trading thier time to gain experience.
- If you are upset over those with valuable experience replying, put it in big bold letters in the ad that you will not be paying for crew and it's on them to cover travel expenses and chip in for food and drink. That should thin out the experienced crew.
- If you are upset over those with no experience replying, put minimum experience levels required.

Of course if you put both of those in your ad, odds are no one who actually reads it will reply.
Yes did make all those points clear and I agree that if I invite non-sailing friends for a day out on the boat or maybe a day sail to an anchorage I don't anticipate they will be doing much other than being passengers (usually enjoy it more if you let them join in). But you can't take passangers on an ocean voyage, well not unless you have an ocean liner. Not asking for commercial qualification or experience and quite happy with an experienced coastal skipper wanting to cut their teeth on a first ocean crossing, just not someone who does not now how to stand a watch without having to wake me up every time the wind changes. RYA coastal skipper or ASA105/6 would be fine or equivelent experience.
Perhaps very other few people do enjoy passage making and just see it as a necessary chore to get to the cruising area they want. I really enjoy the challenge and sense of achievement, also love to sit and watch the stars at night or go for a swim mid-ocean.
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Old 24-02-2015, 06:59   #32
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

We have a local public radio station that offers "Ride lines" which many people offer to share the driving and expenses in exchange for a ride. Understandable there is a vast difference between a 5 hour car trip and a +2 week voyage aboard a sailing vessel. The passenger needs a different skill set, but if you are engaged in the marine community in any kind of a meaningful basis as a rider you would have those, or develop those skill sets. If I am going from point A to B and offer someone a ride, then I expect them to hold a watch, help keep the boat clean and sleep where they can. If they don't like the deal, they are welcome to go elsewhere.
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Old 24-02-2015, 07:12   #33
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pirate Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

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Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
Yes did make all those points clear and I agree that if I invite non-sailing friends for a day out on the boat or maybe a day sail to an anchorage I don't anticipate they will be doing much other than being passengers (usually enjoy it more if you let them join in). But you can't take passangers on an ocean voyage, well not unless you have an ocean liner. Not asking for commercial qualification or experience and quite happy with an experienced coastal skipper wanting to cut their teeth on a first ocean crossing, just not someone who does not now how to stand a watch without having to wake me up every time the wind changes. RYA coastal skipper or ASA105/6 would be fine or equivelent experience.
Perhaps very other few people do enjoy passage making and just see it as a necessary chore to get to the cruising area they want. I really enjoy the challenge and sense of achievement, also love to sit and watch the stars at night or go for a swim mid-ocean.
Funny enough thats one thing I ask to be woken for.. major wind shifts etc.. like to know whats what topsides if I have to bail outa my bunk in a crisis.. lights they are not sure off is another.
As for the passage making.. thats when one wants as few as possible.. these boats that load up with 5-6 crew crack me up..
unless its a pay to crew..
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Old 24-02-2015, 07:24   #34
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

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Yes did make all those points clear and I agree that if I invite non-sailing friends for a day out on the boat or maybe a day sail to an anchorage I don't anticipate they will be doing much other than being passengers (usually enjoy it more if you let them join in). But you can't take passangers on an ocean voyage, well not unless you have an ocean liner. Not asking for commercial qualification or experience and quite happy with an experienced coastal skipper wanting to cut their teeth on a first ocean crossing, just not someone who does not now how to stand a watch without having to wake me up every time the wind changes. RYA coastal skipper or ASA105/6 would be fine or equivelent experience.
Perhaps very other few people do enjoy passage making and just see it as a necessary chore to get to the cruising area they want. I really enjoy the challenge and sense of achievement, also love to sit and watch the stars at night or go for a swim mid-ocean.
Sure you can take guests along on smaller vessels. It's just more work and responsibility for you (we generally limit guests to day sails for this reason).

Again, you list out expected minimum experience levels that sound a lot like a job applicants. They may not be master mariner level but people with valuable skills. Once you start demanding my skill level, I start expecting to be compensated relative to that skill level. I suspect most others feel the same way.

I suspect most experienced coastal cruisers who want to try a crossing...they try a crossing (they typically already have the boat). No need to complicate it by living under someone elses rules.

You are asking for something that has value and people expect to be compensated for it, even if it's just provisions and ticket home.
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Old 24-02-2015, 07:28   #35
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Maybe your problem is assuming everyone else lives as carefree a lifestyle as do you and that people can just take a month off whenever to do whatever they feel like. Some can and you would be lucky to find them.

Not a carefree lifestyle been double shifting including working all of Christmas to afford this, but adventure is what makes life worth living for me. We all make the choice of what is important to us.

Why would those people want to go out of their way to be your companion? Just because you feel like it?

This is where we totally disagree, not because I want it - because THEY want it. Some dreams can only be realized if you work with others. If I can help make someones dream of crossing an ocean come true that will add to my trip and help them. As Hillary said when he was asked why he climbed Everest 'because it's there' This is one of my Everest'sand I am happy to share it.
I have climbed some of the highest mountains in Europe, been down it's deepest caves, been the first human ever to set food in some places, ran ultra marathons and made many long journeys backpacking as well as rebuilding a boat and crossing an ocean in it. So have lots of others but we all expected to work hard, train hard and pay our share for the privlage of doing it. The rewards are well worth all the effort. Some peple go to church, I go into the wilderness.
If it is a chore they have to put up with I don't want them along.
An yes, if it reduces my wife's worry that is a bonus to so everyone gets something out of it.
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Old 24-02-2015, 08:01   #36
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

I get what you're saying RS, I would consider such an "opportunity" in order to gain open ocean experience as part of my own preparation for my future plans.
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Old 24-02-2015, 08:03   #37
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

I can certainly empathize with you and agree on many points. Unfortunately, it seems apparent that not all the rest of the world shares your view.

I do wish you the best on your voyage. I share your passion and would love to join you. Unfortunately, like many others who share the dream I have my own boat and am working double time to make my own dream happen. Cheers!
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Old 24-02-2015, 08:05   #38
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Again, you list out expected minimum experience levels that sound a lot like a job applicants. They may not be master mariner level but people with valuable skills. Once you start demanding my skill level, I start expecting to be compensated relative to that skill level. I suspect most others feel the same way.

Ok, I will give you what is the market rate for your skill level. RYA Yachmaster (preferably with commercial endorsements), good references and super keen will get you an unpaid job as a watch-keeper on a commercial delivery trip, expenses paid. You are expected to be comfortable handling boats up to about 65ft in all weathers and to deliver the boat in showroom condition. My first long trip was from the med to UK and we crossed Biscay in Feb. We saw 50+ nots and spent most of the trip motoring into head seas and gales. Nobody wants boats delivered down trade wind rots in summer, that wat the owners do. Once you log 5 or 6 thousand miles of commercial sailing and show you can manage the job you may get some local jobs or sailing as a paid mate (but don't expect to make more than minimum wage).
Most of the people I knew in Europe who actually made a living had a Master Mariners 3000ton ticket and usually several years merchan marine or navy experience. Either that or they had full instructors license and work for a sea school.

So no, I am not asking for anything that sounds remotely like a job, just the min experience I believe you should have to be safe and enjoy the trip. It is, after all, the longest ocean crossing in the world that does not involve going down to the southern ocean and a very small boat!
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Old 24-02-2015, 08:22   #39
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

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Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
Again, you list out expected minimum experience levels that sound a lot like a job applicants. They may not be master mariner level but people with valuable skills. Once you start demanding my skill level, I start expecting to be compensated relative to that skill level. I suspect most others feel the same way.

Ok, I will give you what is the market rate for your skill level. RYA Yachmaster (preferably with commercial endorsements), good references and super keen will get you an unpaid job as a watch-keeper on a commercial delivery trip, expenses paid. You are expected to be comfortable handling boats up to about 65ft in all weathers and to deliver the boat in showroom condition. My first long trip was from the med to UK and we crossed Biscay in Feb. We saw 50+ nots and spent most of the trip motoring into head seas and gales. Nobody wants boats delivered down trade wind rots in summer, that wat the owners do. Once you log 5 or 6 thousand miles of commercial sailing and show you can manage the job you may get some local jobs or sailing as a paid mate (but don't expect to make more than minimum wage).
Most of the people I knew in Europe who actually made a living had a Master Mariners 3000ton ticket and usually several years merchan marine or navy experience. Either that or they had full instructors license and work for a sea school.

So no, I am not asking for anything that sounds remotely like a job, just the min experience I believe you should have to be safe and enjoy the trip. It is, after all, the longest ocean crossing in the world that does not involve going down to the southern ocean and a very small boat!
So you do agree that an experienced sailor should get some level of compensation. In the informal situation you are discussing, an experienced coastal sailor, is likely to be roughly equivilent and therefore will expect provisions and a ticket home. Depending on the exact amount of experience and capability, there may be room to negotiate a bit, maybe return ticket only and they cover thier share of the provisions. It's certainly open to negotiations but expecting free crew with an experience level you demand is reaching.

I have to disagree. You are still making this out to be very much like a job interview, even if there isn't a specific professional certificate involved. This isn't just a chat to see if you are compatible personalities, you have a skill set you are expecting.
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Old 24-02-2015, 08:53   #40
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Check out Workaway.info the site for free work exchange. Gap year volunteer for food and accommodation whilst travelling abroad. if you want (yacht) help in exchange for room (bunk) and board. There are way more helpers than hosts, so as a host you can choose helpers with the most skills and experience.
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Old 24-02-2015, 09:02   #41
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Totally agree with RS. I would consider it to be a great favor to sail with him and learn from him. Unfortunately I am too old and not much fun. Therefore I had to buy my own boat and hire a delivery captain for this, instead of getting it for free from RS. Strictly my personal opinion/view of life, not meant to offend anyone.
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Old 24-02-2015, 09:35   #42
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Very interesting replies to a member of this Forum's post that was open, honest and forthright. His descriptions of potential crew members were comical, but sadly true. And, to my surprise, he is being eviscerated by those who would have him sent to the guillotine for his honesty. One only needs to read the Crew Wanted section on CF to validate his accurate descriptions of potential crew--most of whom, in my opinion, would be desperate choices that would ultimately lead to disaster. I would gladly crew with someone who was truthful about what is required for the journey and would want to participate equally in sharing any/all duties aboard. But, I would not crew on an egalitarian Love Boat where no one takes responsibility or, when speaking, has to measure every word for fear or bruising the sensitive feelings of New Age Souls. I also find it interesting that Members of this Forum do not actively offer their services to other members for adventures that they may never experience on their own boats while providing a truly experienced crew to those in need. So, Roland, good luck in your search . . . but a word of warning: if you can't find the right crew, better to go it solo. At least you can count on your crew. Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 24-02-2015, 10:08   #43
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Im a lake sailor who wants to move on to blue water. I am extremely mechanically enclined with a lot of common sense but inexperienced. How do i gain that experience outside of crewing on others boats?
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Old 24-02-2015, 10:14   #44
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

Making clear what you offer and what you expect would seem to be the sane approach. However, I have always been well aware of the propensity of people to interpret anything and everything solely from their own perspective. No experience with the crewing issues but it would seem there is a huge difference in wanting hired help to manage a boat and wanting good companionship to share an adventure. Being specific always helps.
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Old 24-02-2015, 10:19   #45
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Re: Warning 'rant' - Don't you just love loking for crew!!

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This is getting silly and I am going back to rant mode; to put it VERY Clearly for everyone

I DO NOT NEED CREW. I AM A SOLO SAILOR. MY BOAT IS DESIGNED THAT WAY. I HAVE SAILED THOUSAND MILE PLUS VOYAGES SOLO. ON THIS TRIP I AM INVITING COMPANY JUST BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT. IF NOBODY SUITABLE OFFERS I WILL SAIL IT SOLO.

So please stop going on about how I should pay my guests.
Amen to that! While I often gain insight to the cruising world from some of the contentiousness on these discussion, it appears many just want to argue and stir the pot with no substantive contribution.
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