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Old 10-10-2017, 06:36   #46
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Re: The day the diesel died ...

I'm a little late to the thread but maybe it's of use to somebody...

Another alternative would have been to heave-to in the gulf for a bit, to make food, take a power nap, ...

And for small engines with more than one cylinder a decent electric power drill might do the trick. Haven't tried it myself, but numbers from the interwebs sugggest 50Nm torque for a 1 Liter Diesel engine, so I wouldn't be surprised if a 600cc 2 cyl diesel could be started with a decent-ish cordless drill.
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:10   #47
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Re: The day the diesel died ...

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Hi, We had a similar failure ... We have an SOP of turning the key to the off position after we start the engine, and then back to the run position. Being a diesel, the engine doesn't stop.
Eric, I wil add the key flip to my SOP. Will this key flip off/on technique work on common rail Yanmars I charter?

Andi, I will test out the battery drill as backup starter. Will an 18V Milwaukee drill turnover a 3 cylinder 25 hp BETA? I'll share the drill test results here. Any bets on the drill starting the Beta or not?

Also I keep my engine ticking over 24 hours/day on all coastal runs from anchor up to anchor down. Keeps batteries topped, provides immediate maneuvering turns, and I just learned here also defers the impact of starter failure. I know the sculling oar folks will good naturedly bust my chops here on the forum for saying I keep my engine running on a SAILboat but I'm just happier with "all of the above" always ready at sea.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:09   #48
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Re: The day the diesel died ...

I’m also late but….

Kelkara - Good on you to rectify the situation by using your primary mode of propulsion instead of calling for help until entering the harbor. Good seamanship. Well written too.

On my boat I removed the key entirely and installed a switch in the cabin. The starter on my Westerbeke is activated by pushing the glow plug button at the same time as the starter button, so no issues for me.

If I had a Yanmar, I would install 2 swicthes one STDP to energize and another momentary switch for the starter. There is no valet parking on harbors, no need for a key….

BTW, I really like the Hullmaster 27, (any Ted Brewer design for that matter). I missed one on a sale a few years back. This is the first I see outside of the Great Lakes though.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:22   #49
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Re: The day the diesel died ...

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Originally Posted by SecondBase View Post
Eric, I wil add the key flip to my SOP. Will this key flip off/on technique work on common rail Yanmars I charter?

Andi, I will test out the battery drill as backup starter. Will an 18V Milwaukee drill turnover a 3 cylinder 25 hp BETA? I'll share the drill test results here. Any bets on the drill starting the Beta or not?
What is it with you guys having the key sticking in start position? Over here, most ignitions are spring loaded, you have to push the key in and turn it right and the springs pushes it back to the left and out. There is a physical indicator, it literally pushes your fingers back if you ease your grip. I just pinch it between two fingers, turn it, loose my grip and then feel it spring back into place.

The M18 Fuel is advertised with 1200 in-lbs of "peak torque", 168Nm. In theory that should be plenty but I'm unsure how the marketing wank "peak" numbers translate to real live. I'd say it turns over the engine for sure but I wouldn't bet on it starting.

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Also I keep my engine ticking over 24 hours/day on all coastal runs from anchor up to anchor down. Keeps batteries topped, provides immediate maneuvering turns,
I'd advise against that. Glasing of the cylinders/pistons, soot in the whole engine, most engines(and saildrives) are not made to run at an angle for a long time and last but not least environmental issues. Get a stern anchor ready to deploy at moments notice and start up the engine before really tricky parts.
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:43   #50
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Re: The day the diesel died ...

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Originally Posted by _andi_ View Post
What is it with you guys having the key sticking in start position? Over here, most ignitions are spring loaded, you have to push the key in and turn it right and the springs pushes it back to the left and out. There is a physical indicator, it literally pushes your fingers back if you ease your grip. I just pinch it between two fingers, turn it, loose my grip and then feel it spring back into place.
Just so you know ... that's how it works over here too ... we get the same tactile feedback from our fingers too. The problem lies a little further up the chain of command. Training the brain to correctly respond to such situations is called "learning" ... it's a never-ending process.
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Old 10-10-2017, 13:37   #51
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Re: The day the diesel died ...

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Just so you know ... that's how it works over here too ...
Ah, oops, sorry. Didn't mean no disrespect. There's so many subtle differences between US and EU gear that I thought there was no spring loading... My bad.

Maybe just rig an additional acoustic alarm to the starter circuit, so that it keeps on blaring if the ignition switch stays in place.
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Old 13-11-2017, 23:25   #52
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Re: The day the diesel died ...

What a great story nice video to go along with it. Always something to learn from
others misfortune.
You did break one of the main rules of electricity. " Don't let the smoke out of the wiring"
Rich
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Old 13-11-2017, 23:44   #53
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Re: The day the diesel died ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Horse View Post
What a great story nice video to go along with it. Always something to learn from
others misfortune.
You did break one of the main rules of electricity. " Don't let the smoke out of the wiring"
Rich
^^^^ Ah, yes, the phlogiston theory of 12 v. electricity....I remember it well!

Ann
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Old 15-11-2017, 14:43   #54
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Re: The day the diesel died ...

The Brits discovered the problem long ago.


A Treatise on the Importance of Smoke**
by Joseph Lucas
Positive ground depends on proper circuit functioning, which is the transmission of negative ions by retention of the visible spectral manifestation known as "smoke". Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work. We know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of an electrical circuit, it stops working. This can be verified repeatedly through empirical testing. For example, if one places a copper bar across the terminals of a battery, prodigious quantities of smoke are liberated and the battery shortly ceases to function. In addition, if one observes smoke escaping from an electrical component such as a Lucas voltage regulator, it will also be observed that the component no longer functions. The logic is elementary and inescapable!

The function of the wiring harness is to conduct the smoke from one device to another. When the wiring springs a leak and lets all the smoke out of the system, nothing works afterward.

Starter motors were considered unsuitable for British motorcycles for some time largely because they consumed large quantities of
smoke, requiring very unsightly large wires.

It has been reported that Lucas electrical components are possibly more prone to electrical leakage than their Bosch, Japanese or American counterparts. Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British, and all things British leak. British engines leak oil, British shock absorbers, hydraulic forks and disk brake systems leak fluid, British tires leak air and British Intelligence leaks national defence secrets. Therefore, it follows that British electrical systems must leak smoke. Once again, the logic is clear and inescapable.

In conclusion, the basic concept of transmission of electrical energy in the form of smoke provides a logical explanation of the mysteries of electrical components - especially British units manufactured by Joseph Lucas, Ltd.

"A gentleman does not motor about after dark."

Joseph Lucas (1842 - 1903)
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Old 15-11-2017, 16:07   #55
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Re: The day the diesel died ...

It is said that the reason the Brits have never been leaders in the computer industry is the inability of their engineers to find a way to make a CPU leak oil.

Could be true!

Jim (who in a previous life rode old Brit motorbikes equipped with Lucas smoke generators and dripping sumps)
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Old 15-11-2017, 17:04   #56
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Re: The day the diesel died ...

Ref the smoke, I met a Lockheed Martin rep one day on the ramp, he had a laptop plugged into a $30,000 box on the aircraft looking at what are called Read codes. As the manufacturer they could dig deeper into the thing than the Army could.
Anyway I casually remarked that I knew what was wrong with it. He piped up and asked what and I did the smoke leaked out thing. Got a funny look so I asked him to explain why that every time the smoke leaked out that the item quit working.
He thought I was serious and avoided me for several days, thinking I guess that I was some kind of idiot .
We later became good friends, but he never could tell if someone was joking or not. I had a cheap Coleman cooler with a peltier plate in my office, he came in and I started on the how does it know when to keep things cold and when to keep them hot?
He started explaining the operating principle of the peltier plate cause he I guess thought I was really confused on how it knew to keep cold things cold and hot things hot.
Guy was an electronics genius.
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Old 15-11-2017, 17:08   #57
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The day the diesel died ...

True story.
As a kid I worked at a shop in Americus Ga and built drag bikes and raced them. One bike we had was a Triumph 650 Bonneville. I had it out one night and was really dragging my knee through a curve at around 100 mph, when suddenly the head light got real bright and had a real white light, then blew out.
Pure flying blind, but I remembered the curve well enough to make it through even though I couldn’t see.
The Lucas voltage rectifier gave up the ghost and let all the current the lighting coil could produce into the system.
Old bikes didn’t have voltage regulators, they had rectifiers. The output of the coil wasn’t regulated, the rectifier worked by shorting excess current to ground, reason they had fins on then to Cool themselves, extended high RPM often made them fail.
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