Sudden Attraction to Hunters

[scuba0_1]

You have to let then justify why they spend so much. It's ok..

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[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Mmmmm . . . . 36 pages?

I would suggest "blue water success" is about 85% the skipper, 14% luck (of various types - health, financial, weather, relationship, etc), and 1% other (including the boat brand).

Beach cats and bath tubs have sailed across oceans and around the horn. I would suggest the fact they have says more about their skippers and their luck than about their seaworthiness.

Can hunters cross oceans - yes, of course; are there better built/designed boats for blue water - yes, of course; are they "necessary" for blue water - no, of course not; and are they worth the extra money - that's an entirely personal decision with no right or wrong answer.

What was the question again

Evan
That begs the question; why you made the choices you did? You could have saved a ton of money simply buying a production boat of similar size.

[bob_77903]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Can hunters cross oceans - yes, of course; are there better built/designed boats for blue water - yes, of course; are they "necessary" for blue water - no, of course not; and are they worth the extra money - that's an entirely personal decision with no right or wrong answer.

How could he possible answer the question any better than he just stated.....kinda answers the whole thread, ya think..

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by bob_77903

How could he possible answer the question any better than he just stated.....kinda answers the whole thread, ya think..

Precisely. Like I said, the debate is over.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Evan
That begs the question; why you made the choices you did? You could have saved a ton of money simply buying a production boat of similar size.

No, a boat likes ours (Hawk) allows a less competent skipper to succeed

(or a competent one to succeed with less stress and work).

Just for a specific example, there were storm conditions when in Silk (a production boat) we would stop (heave-to) when in Hawk we could just keep on trucking. A good skipper certainly can/will manage either situation. But the better boat gives you more options.

As I said in my final point above - how much those extra options are worth is an entirely personal (and not 'factual') decision. You can still do pretty much everything you could imagine with a bathtub or beach cat, just with more care.

[neilpride]

Evan, with all the respect, looking at your website and the specifications of Hawk and why you choose to build it like that seems to me you build a specific boat for offshore hig latitudes sailing, question is, do you feel confident in sailing in the same waters with for example a Legend 40 Factory fitted? no modifications at all. same routes same weather!!

My guess no!! i dont see the shanon as a regular production boat, its a really good ocean boat , having delivery one around hateras years ago,
comparing the shanon with a hunter dont make any sense to me..



You say,,,,


. You can still do pretty much everything you could imagine with a bathtub or beach cat, just with more care.


And i agree, fact is many exotic far places are filled with production boats , to reach that places they need to cross oceans, weather and luck play a role, but when some of this boats get caught in horrible conditions is when you desire a better boat, the last 2 north atlantic episodes come to my mind, and others in between..

40 knts under storm jib in the soutern ocean, well many productions boats dont even have a chainplate in the deck to fit a inner forestay.. Cheers Evan.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Mmmmm . . . . 36 pages?

I would suggest "blue water success" is about 85% the skipper, 14% luck (of various types - health, financial, weather, relationship, etc), and 1% other (including the boat brand).

Beach cats and bath tubs have sailed across oceans and around the horn. I would suggest the fact they have says more about their skippers and their luck than about their seaworthiness.

Can hunters cross oceans - yes, of course; are there better built/designed boats for blue water - yes, of course; are they "necessary" for blue water - no, of course not; and are they worth the extra money - that's an entirely personal decision with no right or wrong answer.

What was the question again

Thus spake the real master

I just looked at this thread for the first time - wow, what tempest in a teapot!! Why do you guys so desperately need your choice of boat validated? Your boat has little to do with it, c.f. Evan's very true comment above. If you rounded the Horn on a Hunter, that's your accomplishments, not the boat's!

Be happy! If you like your own boat, what more do you need to know? I've never sailed a Hunter, and I don't think I've ever even seen one. But I'm sure it's a perfectly fine vessel. In the right hands!

[robert sailor]

It's hard to argue with Evan's logic but going back to 85% skipper, 14% luck and 1% boat choice which could be a bath tub or a Hunter it really leaves it open to interpretation.
I was an aerobatic instructor for many years and the question I often got asked was why can't I fly aerobatics in my standard catagory light aircraft. The answer is that of course you can but you stand a better than even chance of structural failure because your aircraft was not designed for these types of loads. I have in fact flown standard aircraft in aerobatic flight but I have thousands of hours of practice and I can stay well within the design limits of standard catagory.
So how many sailors are so good they can sail a bath tub around Cape Horn? I suspect not many so its probably not good advice to suggest that it might be an OK idea. My experience is that those sailors rounding the known Capes and sailing the Southern ocean usually choose a very well found boat just like Evan and his wife have so that should they make a mistake they haven't used up all their chips.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

It's hard to argue with Evan's logic but going back to 85% skipper, 14% luck and 1% boat choice which could be a bath tub or a Hunter it really leaves it open to interpretation.
I was an aerobatic instructor for many years and the question I often got asked was why can't I fly aerobatics in my standard catagory light aircraft. The answer is that of course you can but you stand a better than even chance of structural failure because your aircraft was not designed for these types of loads. I have in fact flown standard aircraft in aerobatic flight but I have thousands of hours of practice and I can stay well within the design limits of standard catagory.
So how many sailors are so good they can sail a bath tub around Cape Horn? I suspect not many so its probably not good advice to suggest that it might be an OK idea. My experience is that those sailors rounding the known Capes and sailing the Southern ocean usually choose a very well found boat just like Evan and his wife have so that should they make a mistake they haven't used up all their chips.

I feel safe in saying that everyone here agrees that sailing a bathtub around Cape Horn is not a great idea.

Apart from that, I think Evans has stated it very well - and very plainly. Hunters are perfectly capable "bluewater" boats that can actually cross oceans. High latitude sailing is a completely different animal (I think) that we're not really discussing here - although they seem to do okay there too as shown by Sequitur.

Everything beyond that simply comes down to your individual choices. That's Evans' point I believe.

As for me, I can guarantee you that I won't be flying aerobatics with my Hunter. Apart from that I'm very comfortable with her.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

It's hard to argue with Evan's logic but going back to 85% skipper, 14% luck and 1% boat choice which could be a bath tub or a Hunter it really leaves it open to interpretation.
I was an aerobatic instructor for many years and the question I often got asked was why can't I fly aerobatics in my standard catagory light aircraft. The answer is that of course you can but you stand a better than even chance of structural failure because your aircraft was not designed for these types of loads. I have in fact flown standard aircraft in aerobatic flight but I have thousands of hours of practice and I can stay well within the design limits of standard catagory.
So how many sailors are so good they can sail a bath tub around Cape Horn? I suspect not many so its probably not good advice to suggest that it might be an OK idea. My experience is that those sailors rounding the known Capes and sailing the Southern ocean usually choose a very well found boat just like Evan and his wife have so that should they make a mistake they haven't used up all their chips.

I think with a reasonable weather window I could do the Horn in a Beneteau, and I actually think that's not at all the worst boat for the job.

I would prefer my own boat, of course . But the wisdom of Evans' post is that the choice of boat is far down the list of important factors.

[sailpower]

What a strange conversation. People buy what they like and can afford. How hard is that to figure out?

I get why some guys in big expensive boats get annoyed about people doing what they are doing without spending as much money to do it. Some egos need more validation than others. Human nature.

I don't get why those who don't appear to have boats care what someone else is sailing? They are vehement about their opinion being the right one for others but don't have a personal boat in their signature so it's hard to know if this is maybe just a theoretical for them?. If so, that is even more strange, at least to me.

[robert sailor]

I see the wisdom in Evans comments and his logic but even though he is by now a pretty damn good sailor he chooses a bullet proof boat to do his sailing in. There is nothing unique here as he has lots of company. I see Jimmy Cornell and Steve Dashew like bullet proof boats as well and the list goes on and on. Why do these real experienced and good sailors choose these boats? What do they know that you don't? If the production boats were such wise choices and a damn site cheaper why don't the better sailors use them in the Southern ocean? I think we all know why.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Why do these real experienced and good sailors choose these boats? What do they know that you don't? If the production boats were such wise choices and a damn site cheaper why don't the better sailors use them in the Southern ocean? I think we all know why.

I think you're a bit confused and might need to start a new thread on production boats and the Southern Ocean.

Though I've presented a real-life example of how a Hunter can, indeed, handle a severe storm in the Southern Ocean, the debate in this thread has always centered around whether these production boats are "bluewater boats".

Answer: They are.

No one is trying to claim that they are the best boats for tackling the Southern Ocean or the Northwest Passage. So you're not quite getting it as you try to keep things so extreme. Very, very, very, very, very, very, very few people sail like that. So it doesn't really apply here.

Again - rated Hunters (and other modern production boats) are "bluewater boats" that can cross oceans. Period. That's enough in terms of this long-running, silly debate. From there, as Evans' points out - it's a matter of degrees and tastes.

Why is this so hard for some people?

[Coops]

Strange conversation? Of course it is and this is why. Some folks are over sensitive. Some folks like to argue. Some folks like to rubbish something or somebody. Some folks are just strange.

Mix all these together and then add a splash of one or two posters actually being constructive and you have this mish-mash of useful info, outright maliciousness, blind stubborn opinions, and button pushing egotists.

It's like a reality tv show made without pictures or sound. Just a script.

Coops.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Coops

Strange conversation? Of course it is and this is why. Some folks are over sensitive. Some folks like to argue. Some folks like to rubbish something or somebody. Some folks are just strange.

Mix all these together and then add a splash of one or two posters actually being constructive and you have this mish-mash of useful info, outright maliciousness, blind stubborn opinions, and button pushing egotists.

It's like a reality tv show made without pictures or sound. Just a script.

Coops.

Coops - let's not be rude. That's a long list of name-calling bro. Heh-heh.

Let's just stick to the subject at hand. What do you have to offer?