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Old 21-10-2014, 02:07   #496
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

The debate was over when one boat made it through a storm?? I would say it doesn't take too much to convince you. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Hunters, in my mind they are as good as any of the production boats but they make a ton of different models and because one of them made it through a storm does not suggest that all of them are as sea worthy. Its quite normal to support your personal decisions but your point is a weak one.
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Old 21-10-2014, 08:35   #497
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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The debate was over when one boat made it through a storm?? I would say it doesn't take too much to convince you. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Hunters, in my mind they are as good as any of the production boats but they make a ton of different models and because one of them made it through a storm does not suggest that all of them are as sea worthy. Its quite normal to support your personal decisions but your point is a weak one.
No. Not "a storm". The debate was over when Sequitur comfortably made it through an F-10/11 in the Southern Ocean...after rounding Cape Horn. They did have to get there, you know...enduring many other storms, etc. along the way...and back.

It takes a lot to convince me. And that certainly was the cherry on top. You can't get any more "bluewater" than that. Period. And that boat did just fine.

So it's actually a very strong point.
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Old 21-10-2014, 09:24   #498
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Having just spent a day removing the sails, winterizing the motor and getting ready to overhaul the head on a Hunter 29.5, I must admit that the access, simple systems and room to work was a pleasant surprise. I've sailed her half a dozen times and while not the closest to the wind, she performed better than adequately.
The boat belongs to a good friend who is fairly inexperienced sailing and knows very little about maintenance issues so asked me to give him a hand getting ready for winter on the hard.
He has two very young children and a wife who is game but inexperienced about boating, generally. I can't think of a better platform for their family to be introduced to the water and cruising for the price! He is already talking about increasing the sail inventory for better performance but I suggested that sailing with his limited sail choices is better while he and his family get more familiar with staying aboard for a few days at a time, anchoring, maintaining the systems and boat handling.
He acquired the vessel very inexpensively and should provide all of them with years of enjoyment through the diaper years and beyond.
Those of us with many years of experience and several boats behind us need to remember what it was like to own our first boat and learn through the mistakes we all made. I would rather encourage him than poo-poo his enthusiasm and willingness to take on the challenge. Phil
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Old 21-10-2014, 12:25   #499
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

He try to say something like a MacGregor 25 crossing Biscay bay in a f10 is a seaworthy offshore boat... and the dumb builders making expensive and more seaworthy boats are just wasting their time, people can round the Horn anytime in a Hunter no matter what...

If you want to drag around your slow, stuffy, old bluewater boat your entire cruising life buy a Hunter!!


Seriously, a Hunter can cross oceans, and even round some nasty corners , but putting the whole fleet in the same bag??? i think you need to cross that Gulf 25 miles close to shore border saturday daysail and see it by yourself,,, no idea whats so amazing about a Hunter?? v any other well know Brand??

What you are trying to say is that any production plastic fantastic thing is made to cross any portion of the ocean in any kind of condition?? think about please....
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Old 21-10-2014, 14:03   #500
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

That's what's so nice about seeing all the new models and comparing the different build qualities at the boat show, like the big one in Annapolis. There's something there for everyone. Daysailers, boats built like tanks, boats that look like tanks, catamarans which are like floating islands.. Most people end up discovering the differences, some don't.
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Old 21-10-2014, 16:43   #501
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Seriously, a Hunter can cross oceans, and even round some nasty corners , but putting the whole fleet in the same bag??? i think you need to cross that Gulf 25 miles close to shore border saturday daysail and see it by yourself,,, no idea whats so amazing about a Hunter?? v any other well know Brand??

What you are trying to say is that any production plastic fantastic thing is made to cross any portion of the ocean in any kind of condition?? think about please....
I think most people (even many non-sailors) are smart enough to figure that one out by themselves. I don't need to explain it to them.
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Old 21-10-2014, 19:42   #502
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Hunters, in my mind they are as good as any of the production boats but they make a ton of different models and because one of them made it through a storm does not suggest that all of them are as sea worthy.
That's fair to say. I get frustrated when the Hunter haters get going....but why? My boat is a 1982 Cherubini Hunter 36. Most say this is a good boat, even the folk bashing Hunters (that know anything about Hunters). I really shouldn't take offense, because much of the negative comments involve the newer models (which I know nothing about). But I do get offended, because that is what I choose to sail, cruise, and live aboard.

After 4 Gulf Stream crossings, sailing the Tongue of the Ocean, crossing from the Exumas to George Town, or to Eleuthera, to the Abaco's (how deep is "blue water"?), and eventually back to Texas, I'm pretty happy with our Hunter. We've been back in Texas for 4 months after 2 years and 5000 miles of cruising. I re-bedded the chainplates today, and have gone through the boat thoroughly after getting back here. All is the same as when we left back in Nov. 2012. I certainly don't have any gripes with our 32 year old boat. And - we still live aboard and plan to head to the BVI's next year.

Personally, I like the older Hunters. But finding a good one, where the previous owners took good care might be an issue. Same with any other boat. We have close friends with a Pacific Seacraft 37, they nearly lost the rig crossing to Bimini, because of poor maintenance. I can't blame the manufacturer, can I?

Heck....I don't know what other people have in mind when they buy a boat. No doubt, the cockpit on a Hunter 45 is huge! I'd love it, because that is where I spend most of the time on the boat. And really, I'm just not into long crossings. I've done a couple. Long as in 2-3 weeks. I'll leave that to the crazy old guy (Webb Chiles) sailing RTW on a Moore 24, and Ronnie Simpson (young Guy) doing the SHTP on a Moore 24 and an Olsen 30.

Really, these threads are hurtful. There are so many new sailors ( or wantabees) that read the posts here. I prove that a Hunter is fine for cruising the east coast and Bahamas. Mark J proves that a Bene 393 works for a RTW trip, if you know what the heck you're doing. Smackdaddy proves that there is value in the Hunter 40 (I'd love one). Maybe the "haters" should post why their choice is such a great value, instead of thrashing us....the ones that own Hunters?
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Old 21-10-2014, 20:27   #503
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

+1 Ralph.

Honestly, I think the bashers are being listened to less and less. I certainly don't care what they have to say anymore. And, judging by all the Hunters and other production boats I see out there, I don't think many others do either.

That's a good thing.
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Old 22-10-2014, 03:01   #504
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Smack Daddy you love debating about others and their issues so when its in your corner and your boat you feel one overriding statement brings your views to the top of the mountain and the conversation is over.
Using your method of critical thinking, lets look at the opposite end. Recently 2 Beneteaus came to grief in the Atlantic, one lost a keel and the other one had structural failure of the rear bulkhead and sunk. Between the 2 boats 5 lives were lost so therefore anything Beneteau builds is tarred with that brush and is not seaworthy. Again using your critical thinking pattern I personally am aware of Hunters losing rudders(more than once) offshore as well as Hunters chain plates coming loose and opening the deck and interior liners coming loose, if it hadn't happened at dockside they would have lost the rig.
Using these examples of production builders shortfalls and then taking away the thought that none of these brands is suitable for crossing oceans is just as ridiculous as your example of one boat sailing around Cape Horn therefore they must all be great boats. These are production boats, they are built down to a price to serve 99% of the end users. There are many examples of production boats having structural failures when they get into situations they were never designed for BUT for most sailing conditions they seem to have a reasonably good record and if sailed by a competent skipper should be able to come through most of the time, even rounding Cape Horn.
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Old 22-10-2014, 07:05   #505
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Hunters and Bayliners, the original Model T and the like serve a very useful function.
They get a lot of people out on the water (or driving) that may not be able to otherwise, and for the vast majority of users do just fine, accept their limitations and stay withing those limits and they can and do, most anything. Staying withing the limits of a vessel is not a production boat requirement, it's a requirement, period.

But, for the 1% that want to exceed the design and build limitations of a production boat, there are better boats, just as back in the day, there were much better automobiles than the Model T, just the Model T had outstanding value as do the production boats.

From my admittedly limited experience boat shopping and a survey, the older Hunters were built better, and my understanding is the newer ones are also built better, but there were a few years where build quality suffered
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Old 22-10-2014, 07:33   #506
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

smackdaddy I have to go with Robert Sailor on this. I am NOT bashing Hunters, just cannot agree with your logic. Using the example of one single boat on one voyage is not proof of anything, good or bad.

A data sample of one is not statistically valid and to draw any kind conclusions on this basis is completely meaningless.
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Old 22-10-2014, 07:39   #507
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Smack Daddy you love debating about others and their issues so when its in your corner and your boat you feel one overriding statement brings your views to the top of the mountain and the conversation is over.
You're welcome to converse all you want. I'm just saying the actual debate is over.

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Using your method of critical thinking, lets look at the opposite end. Recently 2 Beneteaus came to grief in the Atlantic, one lost a keel and the other one had structural failure of the rear bulkhead and sunk. Between the 2 boats 5 lives were lost so therefore anything Beneteau builds is tarred with that brush and is not seaworthy. Again using your critical thinking pattern I personally am aware of Hunters losing rudders(more than once) offshore as well as Hunters chain plates coming loose and opening the deck and interior liners coming loose, if it hadn't happened at dockside they would have lost the rig.
Yeah. Lots of boats have had problems like this. In last year's debacle of a cruising rally, the Salty Dawg Rally, several traditional "blue water" boats had big problems and had to call in SAR. An Alden 54 lost its rudder, Hans Christian 38 dismasted, etc. And this was in a single day - in relatively moderate conditions as reported by the USCG!

Swans and Oysters have sunk (along with many other vaunted brands). All kinds of stuff has happened to all kinds of boats. For example, there were also a couple of Catalinas that had problems in that same SDR (one losing a rudder). So what conclusion do you draw from this commonality between the blue water brands and the production brands in the SDR?

For me, it's simple - take care of your boat and stay out of bad weather. Nothing much more than that.

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Using these examples of production builders shortfalls and then taking away the thought that none of these brands is suitable for crossing oceans is just as ridiculous as your example of one boat sailing around Cape Horn therefore they must all be great boats. These are production boats, they are built down to a price to serve 99% of the end users. There are many examples of production boats having structural failures when they get into situations they were never designed for BUT for most sailing conditions they seem to have a reasonably good record and if sailed by a competent skipper should be able to come through most of the time, even rounding Cape Horn.
As for your first sentence - you're absolutely right. As for the rest, as has been made abundantly clear in this thread (and many other similar threads) by people who are actually out there - the conclusion isn't based on a single Hunter standing up to the Southern Ocean. There are many, many Hunters (and other production boats) out there sending it all over the world. Sequitur is just the pièce de résistance.

As you say, CE Category A Hunters (and other modern production brands*) are bluewater boats...especially with a good skipper at the helm (as is always the case). Why quibble with the obvious?



*Example...

Catalina:
Yachts and boats for sale - Catalina Yachts
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Old 22-10-2014, 07:53   #508
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Swans and Oysters have sunk (along with many other vaunted brands).
Name one single Oyster yacht that has sunk, other than the one that hit an iceberg off the Falkland islands 4 years ago, then remained afloat for two days awaiting the rescue vessel?
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Old 22-10-2014, 08:16   #509
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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How can the Hunter keel be considered a "bilge keel" when all the voids/cavities are filled with expanding foam insulation, and there isn't any direct connection to the shallow bilge that's part of the hull other than the keel bolt holes? The 450 has a bilge that's only 18 inches deep and will only hold a few gallons... maybe three at most. What you see in the Hunter keel repair pictures is not the Hunter 450's actual bilge.

It's true. I think they just wanted more head room, so they made the cabin deeper for taller people, sacrificing the size of the bilge in the process. Another problem with a lot of Hunters if you want to consider taking them off shore is their small scuppers.
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Old 22-10-2014, 08:20   #510
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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It's true. I think they just wanted more head room, so they made the cabin deeper for taller people, sacrificing the size of the bilge in the process. Another problem with a lot of Hunters if you want to consider taking them off shore is their small scuppers.
Shallow bilges seemed to me to be a hallmark of a "modern" boat design, not a Hunter specific thing
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