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Old 06-10-2014, 12:06   #466
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Old 06-10-2014, 12:24   #467
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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If we were discussing an automobile model where the front wheels kept falling off or the suspension kept breaking.... would this situation be acceptable? Even if your wheels on the same model car, hadn't yet fallen off?
But the fact is that my 14 year old Hunter has had NO problems with any construction/assembly item. So just because some people may have had a problem doesn't mean anything either.

In fact on my boat I found the boat constructed way better than expected and when I wanted to take out the top of the forward locker that in the bottom of berth I decided no to when I found the whole thing was fiberglassed to the hull.

Manufacturers can not really protect/prevent what an owner may do to a boat.
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Old 06-10-2014, 12:32   #468
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Sorry about the editing, but you're way off on most of your statements. Hunter Marine had taken some shortcuts on some of it's models, like the 450 passage that we owned. When I purchased the boat, I didn't expect the necessity to remove the keel, make expensive modifications and reinstall it properly because the manufacturer wanted to save just a few dollars during the manufacturing process. On a boat with only 620 hours on it and one which had spend almost 10 years sitting in a slip in San Francisco, I wouldn't normally expect the keel to come loose.

Other than that and the extremely poor customer service, the boat was fine. For our intended use in Southern California, I would buy it again. But I do encourage other owners to double check their keel junction, keel bolts and rudder shafts during haul outs. Nothing wrong with warning others about problems with some designs so that they can be proactive.
You know, that kind of first hand experience advice I can use, especially if you include the year of build.
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Old 06-10-2014, 13:43   #469
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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But the fact is that my 14 year old Hunter has had NO problems with any construction/assembly item. So just because some people may have had a problem doesn't mean anything either.

In fact on my boat I found the boat constructed way better than expected and when I wanted to take out the top of the forward locker that in the bottom of berth I decided no to when I found the whole thing was fiberglassed to the hull.

Manufacturers can not really protect/prevent what an owner may do to a boat.
Kenomac obviously got a lemon and as it is a first hand experience and not hearsay it deserves to be taken into account. At least to confirm the fact that lemons do occur in Hunter's production history as well as in other brands. It still doesn't scare me away from the Hunters in general. It's just something I'll keep in mind and remember to check the points he mentioned when the day comes that I'm actually ready to buy and are looking at a used Hunter. Probably could help me to avoid buying a lemon too. Right now I wouldn't mind a used early 90's P42, if I can afford it. That may change as we get farther in the process of planning and specification. Right now I have enough trying to figure out what the options are within our expected budget.
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Old 06-10-2014, 13:57   #470
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

So does anyone know how Hunter is doing financially since the Chapter 11 and subsequent buyout by Marlow? I live about 10 miles from the Hunter plant and drive past the plant on a fairly regular basis. For thirty years there were always new boats parked around the plant. At times the whole parking lot was jammed with dozens of boats. For the last few years I have not seen a single boat outside. I'm sure they are building them but I guess so few that they stay inside the buildings and are shipped out as soon as they're finished.

Anyone seen a new Hunter built since the buyout? Wonder if they are trying to improve the brand image, cutting corners and cheaping out, or just keeping everything the same as before?
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Old 06-10-2014, 14:21   #471
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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So does anyone know how Hunter is doing financially since the Chapter 11 and subsequent buyout by Marlow? I live about 10 miles from the Hunter plant and drive past the plant on a fairly regular basis. For thirty years there were always new boats parked around the plant. At times the whole parking lot was jammed with dozens of boats. For the last few years I have not seen a single boat outside. I'm sure they are building them but I guess so few that they stay inside the buildings and are shipped out as soon as they're finished.

Anyone seen a new Hunter built since the buyout? Wonder if they are trying to improve the brand image, cutting corners and cheaping out, or just keeping everything the same as before?
That is a good question, and doubt anyone really knows, as Marlow is private.

We do know that Gemini Cats are no longer built by Hunter, but now by Catalina. There could be a number of reasons, including Hunter no longer had the capacity, Gemini was concerned about the on going financials of Hunter, potential quality issues due to reorganization and the fact the Hunter may not have seen Gemini fabrication as a priority. All of that is speculation.

Have you seem many Gemini's come out of that factory?
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Old 06-10-2014, 14:36   #472
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

We have a Cape Dory 33. This is our fourth Cape Dory so you might say we are a tad bit dedicated to the brand for a lot of reasons. They have an excellent reputation for quality (despite their criminal practice of using a molded hull liner ) and we are certainly not the only devotee of the boats. If you check the owner's association forum you will find Cape Dory zealots galore. That being said......

This weekend we were working on replacing the thru hull beneath our galley sink. When the old mounting pad, which was plywood and badly delaminiated, was pulled up it appeared that whoever installed it was recessing into the hull liner for the pad and recessed too far into the actual hull of the boat. In our opinion they recessed too far leaving the hull too thin in that area. This also created a sort of gulley around the mounting pad where any moisture could pool, which probably hastened the delamination of the pad. When I was discussing with my husband that this is so a-typical for a Cape Dory he said, "as good as they are we still have to remember that they were built by individual people performing thousands of processes. None of these people are perfect and any one of them were apable of making an error at any point along the way. The true craftsman will correct his error, but on any given day someone may just decide it's good enough and that might just be the thing that wasn't looked at closely that day by the quality inspector. It happens."
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Old 06-10-2014, 14:42   #473
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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That is a good question, and doubt anyone really knows, as Marlow is private.

We do know that Gemini Cats are no longer built by Hunter, but now by Catalina. There could be a number of reasons, including Hunter no longer had the capacity, Gemini was concerned about the on going financials of Hunter, potential quality issues due to reorganization and the fact the Hunter may not have seen Gemini fabrication as a priority. All of that is speculation.

Have you seem many Gemini's come out of that factory?
Never saw a single cat at the Alachua FL plant. Didn't know that Hunter even built the Geminis. Is it possible the cats were built by one of the other divisions of Luhrs which was the parent company of Hunter?

I met the guy used to do all the masts and rigging to Hunter. Will ask him if he knows anything about Gemini.
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Old 06-10-2014, 14:58   #474
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Never saw a single cat at the Alachua FL plant. Didn't know that Hunter even built the Geminis. Is it possible the cats were built by one of the other divisions of Luhrs which was the parent company of Hunter?

I met the guy used to do all the masts and rigging to Hunter. Will ask him if he knows anything about Gemini.
Here is the press release, mentioning the move.:

Gemini Catamarans Announces Strategic Partnership with Catalina Yachts in Largo, Florida | Tampa Bay News Wire
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Old 06-10-2014, 18:49   #475
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Very interesting. In all the years I drove by I never saw a single cat in the Hunter yard. Must have been a well hidden secret.
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Old 06-10-2014, 20:04   #476
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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But the fact is that my 14 year old Hunter has had NO problems with any construction/assembly item. So just because some people may have had a problem doesn't mean anything either.[edit]

Manufacturers can not really protect/prevent what an owner may do to a boat.
Then it's a good thing the previous owners of our Hunter 450 chose to just motor occasionally around in San Francisco Bay for ten years on sunny, calm days, which resulted in just a loose keel. Who knows what would have happened if they'd decided to actually leave the bay and go cruising, or hoist the sails.

So what you're saying... is that the manufacturer should not be held responsible if a Hunter owner decides to leave the dock and a safety or structural item on the boat breaks due to under engineering or faulty workmanship?

You imply that any issues with a Hunter... any model...are somehow the fault of the owner? If we were discussing any other tangible object, like a car, this premise would be totally unacceptable.

Sometimes a manufacturer decides to produce crap, and when they do... they should be held accountable.
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Old 07-10-2014, 05:22   #477
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Interesting Ken how you once personally told me the story of how your Hunter regularly sat on its' keel at the dock. Guess that wouldn't have anything to do with a keel problem.

Regardless there are 10,000s of Hunters out sailing with no problems. Just because you had a problem doesn't mean they are crap no matter what type of spin you try to put on it.

BTW - was your boat owned by someone named Templeton in the past?
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Old 07-10-2014, 06:26   #478
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Interesting Ken how you once personally told me the story of how your Hunter regularly sat on its' keel at the dock. Guess that wouldn't have anything to do with a keel problem.
Tens of thousands of boats throughout the English channel sit on their keels twice a day, everyday without problems. My Oyster 53 sat on it's keel for over 5 years without a problem, and as I write this, our Oyster is currently sitting on it's keel on the hard until June like it did for 8 months last year, and I don't expect a problem.

Why would a Hunter sitting on it's keel develop a loose keel? Are they built that poorly? As I've told you several times. I was wrong about our Hunter sitting on it's keel at the dock, the slip was located where the water is 12ft deep, so that wasn't even an issue. Would you like to see the chart and slip location again, I've already shown you several times? And even if it did sit on it's keel... so what, it shouldn't matter unless the boat is crap.

I don't remember the name of the previous owner, why do you ask? They were two elderly men in their late 60's early 70's who rarely ever took the boat out to motor around the bay (620 original hours). Their disabilities necessitated the sale of the boat. Very nice and honorable guys who took great care of the boat; it was like brand new when we purchased it. And when we sold it, it was like brand new and sold with an improved keel for the next owner.
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Old 07-10-2014, 07:14   #479
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Just to be clear for other Hunter owners, our 450 keel did not come loose as a result of the boat resting on it's keel, owner neglect or misuse as Sailorboy1 suggests. It came loose due to a faulty keel joint, and poorly engineered honeycomb lower section design. The lower portion, normally solid lead on most sailboats, was a honeycomb design that Hunter filled with sprayed-in expanding foam insulation. When the keel joint became compromised due to not enough bonding surface area, the foam/voids held in the seawater like a giant sponge and rusted the stainless steel keel bolts.

The yard which made the repairs (KKMI) removed the foam and filled the large voids so that the problem would not repeat itself.

Sailorboy1 has had this explained to him many times, I don't know why he keeps repeating himself about the boat resting on it's keel stuff.

My reason for posting this information is not to "bash Hunters" as he claims, it's to alert other Hunter owners of the potential problem, so that it can be remedied prior to it creating a catastrophic failure. To simply ignore the problem as some would prefer you do... is foolish.

Following the repair, we went on to enjoy our Hunter for two more years in Southern California, and I assume the new owner is doing the same.
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Old 07-10-2014, 13:43   #480
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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.....snip.....
The yard which made the repairs (KKMI) removed the foam and filled the large voids so that the problem would not repeat itself.

.....snip.....

My reason for posting this information is not to "bash Hunters" as he claims, it's to alert other Hunter owners of the potential problem, so that it can be remedied prior to it creating a catastrophic failure. To simply ignore the problem as some would prefer you do... is foolish.

Following the repair, we went on to enjoy our Hunter for two more years in Southern California, and I assume the new owner is doing the same.
How much did the repair cost? Or putting it another way. How much would such a condition deduct from the price of a used boat?
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