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Old 23-03-2013, 05:58   #376
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I'm not crazy about sailboats that depend on glued in liners for structural integrity.
The structural integrity has nothing to do the liner. The liner is just to hold the interior assembly together till it is installed into the hull. If you take the time to watch a construction video you would see the the area of the liner is pretty small. All the bulkheads are later glassed to the hull.

Liners have been used now for a long time on 1,000s and 1,000s of boats. Yet you don't heard owners saying their liner failed, just internet experts.

Other than your story I have never heard of a liner experiencing "total liner failure" let alone your so called "widely known". How about a link to support your statement? A real link, not to some other internet 4th person story that can not be checked because just because it is on the internet that doesn't make it true.

PS - I know where you got that statement that you copied and posted as your own. Even in the orginal it was unsupported.
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Old 23-03-2013, 07:21   #377
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post
The structural integrity has nothing to do the liner. The liner is just to hold the interior assembly together till it is installed into the hull. If you take the time to watch a construction video you would see the the area of the liner is pretty small. All the bulkheads are later glassed to the hull.

Liners have been used now for a long time on 1,000s and 1,000s of boats. Yet you don't heard owners saying their liner failed, just internet experts.

Other than your story I have never heard of a liner experiencing "total liner failure" let alone your so called "widely known". How about a link to support your statement? A real link, not to some other internet 4th person story that can not be checked because just because it is on the internet that doesn't make it true.

PS - I know where you got that statement that you copied and posted as your own. Even in the orginal it was unsupported.

Sorry to put my nose in a Hunter topic but, my well loved C&C have a couple of serious isues with the main saloon bulkhead resting in the liner , the bulkhead due compresion crack both liners and im forced to spend big $$$ to fix it, and is this particular boat some bulkheads rest in the liner , no glass tabing or something like that, same as a old Irwin we are fixing now in the boatyard , bulkheads are disloged or shifted in some spots, but the owner can live with it, a liner to me sounds lame , but keep going pls with the topic. Cheers...
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Old 23-03-2013, 07:28   #378
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Hunters are very common boats. If there ever was a manufacturing defect, it's likely that someone - especially a surveyor - would have seen it even if it only affected a very small percentage of boats. People see what is in front of them. If you work in a boatyard, and you see a lot of Hunters coming for repairs, it may lead you to feel that Hunters are unreliable even though it is only a matter of popularity.
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Old 23-03-2013, 07:29   #379
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Inner liners are a pest that should be exterminated. A friend had a Catalina and needed to get to a tank which means cutting up half the boat. He finally gave up and sold the boat instead, what a sad business.

Boats need to be build different than travel trailers. That doesn't mean they can't be mass produced, it only means they can't be mass produced at the price levels some of them are.
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Old 23-03-2013, 07:33   #380
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Or they need to be treated as disposable, and their owners need to understand that they are one-time use boats. When the hull gets mushy,or certain components break down, they need to be pushed down the food chain to the day sailors, liveaboards, etc until they finally end up with the salvagers.

I don't see it as a sad business - though I suppose it would be sad to lose a beloved home. Me, I've always been more than happy to get a shiny new home.
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Old 23-03-2013, 07:48   #381
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

I think we're again talking about the "horrible creaking and loud explosive banging noises at anchor" I experienced with the Hunter 450. As the boat rocked side to side, it always made quite the symphony of load noises which always made everyone onboard feel uneasy... I got tired of answering questions from guests who asked, "are we going to be OK?"

Up until we sold the Hunter.... frankly, I didn't know any difference; until I experienced the relative calm while sleeping on our new Oyster during a force 8 gale. Wow! No creaking or banging noises. Complete peace of mind and confidence in the boat.

Hunters are great for day sailing and weekend adventures. But, when the going gets tough, I'm afraid they're just a little out of their league.

I'm actually very glad that the brand is working out for most owners who probably spend most of their time doing what their boats are intended to do. Most respondents to this thread seem very pleased with their purchase.
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Old 23-03-2013, 07:53   #382
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pirate Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

I've always felt that Hunters were designed to the lowest price point and the widest appeal to wives. (If mama's happy...). As disposable income increased, the term "Yuppie" was born. Yuppies bought Hunters and Volvo wagons. Hull liners, carpeting, fabric overheads...along came GPS/chartplotters and Hunter buyers became RTW sailors. Life is good.

And how about that massive shower!
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Old 23-03-2013, 08:07   #383
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Originally Posted by rtbates View Post
A brand new Hunter 45 was launched at our marina and it immediately began to sink. It leaked profusely all around the keel joint. Not my kind of builder thank you very much.

This serves to show that some people criticize with absolutely no understanding, experience or knowledge.

All new boats are commissioned by the launch yard who among other things, is responsible for attaching the keel as a new boat is not shipped with the keel on.

Blaming the manufacturer is ridiculous.

I think we need to expose those who criticize with no knowledge for what it is.
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Old 23-03-2013, 08:11   #384
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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The structural integrity has nothing to do the liner.
For many boats, this is true.

Liners, used since late 70s, early 80s, were/are indeed used as a "convenience" during the build process for "pre-assembly" of the interior, etc.

With modern structural adhesives appearing on scene, engineers can now design parts of the liner as a "stressed" structural element. This is not saying *all* liners are structural. BTW, successfully doing this requires great attention to construction quality.
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Old 23-03-2013, 08:15   #385
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
This serves to show that some people criticize with absolutely no understanding, experience or knowledge.

All new boats are commissioned by the launch yard who among other things, is responsible for attaching the keel as a new boat is not shipped with the keel on.

Blaming the manufacturer is ridiculous.

I think we need to expose those who criticize with no knowledge for what it is.
You make it sound as if they are produced and shipped like packed chickens. I never realized there were builders who do not launch their boats... not even put keels on.

Now it starts making sense; if your "launch yard" is not good, your keel falls off or you sink. Right. AFAIK even Beneteau puts keels on their boats and launches them in La Rochele.
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Old 23-03-2013, 08:20   #386
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

I wonder how many of people who have posted in the last 2 pages of this thread have actually read the whole thread.

I have, more than once plus a lot more research and then went out an got a Hunter!

I found out that most of the stories could not be checked into and appeared to be internet legends. For the most part even for the things that could checked out it was like saying that out of the 40 years of building boats, and the many many models, that because a few had a problem then all of them are bad.

I find it weird that some people seem so invested in trashing a boat.
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Old 23-03-2013, 08:22   #387
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don L View Post
I wonder how many of people who have posted in the last 2 pages of this thread have actually read the whole thread.

I have, more than once plus a lot more research and then went out an got a Hunter!

I found out that most of the stories could not be checked into and appeared to be internet legends. For the most part even for the things that could checked out it was like saying that out of the 40 years of building boats, and the many many models, that because a few had a problem then all of them are bad.

I find it weird that some people seem so invested in trashing a boat.
So Don, this means that you know exactly if Hunter puts keels on their boats or not. Please, tell us, because I don't know but read here that they don't...
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Old 23-03-2013, 08:23   #388
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
Hunters are very common boats. If there ever was a manufacturing defect, it's likely that someone - especially a surveyor - would have seen it even if it only affected a very small percentage of boats.
IF the surveyor is worth his salt. And that can be a big IF these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
People see what is in front of them. If you work in a boatyard, and you see a lot of Hunters coming for repairs, it may lead you to feel that Hunters are unreliable even though it is only a matter of popularity.
I do and have. But we have seen just as many of other production boats (Jeanneaus, Beneteaus, etc.). So my experience says you cant single out one builder. Also, cause for most repairs in our place tend to be from neglect, poor maintenance, or just owner stupidity (not paying attention to charts, lol).

BTW, if you take any boat, and look close enough, you can find some pretty egregious examples of "construction quality", or design for that matter. Even productions boats built with supposed "quality control" processes. But they are often minor in overall impact (i.e. not gonna sink the boat).
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Old 23-03-2013, 08:33   #389
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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You make it sound as if they are produced and shipped like packed chickens. I never realized there were builders who do not launch their boats... not even put keels on.
Happens all the time. A boat built in France will cost more to ship to the US with it's long fin keel already attached. Takes up more shipping space.

It's the same reason the mast is not stepped by the builder

Oh, and rudders too (long spade type).
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Old 23-03-2013, 08:33   #390
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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So Don, this means that you know exactly if Hunter puts keels on their boats or not. Please, tell us, because I don't know but read here that they don't...
Far as I know the current practice is that they install the keel at the factory and then put it in a little lake they have on site to leak test it.

I don't know if some new boat got delivered and then leaked. It could of, just like any other boat with a bolted on keel. Of course we have no idea what may have happened to the boat after it passed the leak test at the factory. And either way it doesn't prove anything other that that boat had an issue.
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