Spectacular Med Mooring Screwup

[DeepFrz]

http://sfbaysss.net/resource/doc/Sin...irdEdition.pdf
Not specifically about docking but about single handing. Interesting read.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

That was my first thought also Pete but as we were not there, perhaps there was not enough swing room at the Bouy, which if there was, your method would still be my preference.

Reasons
Boat sits bow to gusty weather away from any damages while you are busy setting up shore line
Quiet unobtrusive maneuver and better control as you approach the other boats and pier.
Simpler maneuver with stern lines already in place to pick up and secure.
People ashore will see what your intent is and some helpful soul may already have a dingy in water to take your long stern line

Reasons for not going alongside
Solo person still dependent on shore help in strong wind
Wind gusting and blowing off the pier making tie up stressful
Murphy's law... another boat arrives just as your tender is touching the water

There is an easy trick to avoid damaging the stern quarter.

Make an outboard slip loop at a midship cleat and run slack mooring line thru that so as to pull boat away from pier before slipping loop and turning.

Working from buoy just seems more conservative.

I think both methods could work but disagree which is easier or more conservative for quite a few reasons. While coming alongside first is only
possible if there's a sparsely populated dock that has room to do that, if that condition does exist I think it would be much easier and less risky than trying to pull your stern in from a buoy.

First, I feel that a solo person should NOT be in need of help to come alongside in 20 knots of wind that's only partially away from the dock. If you do manage to screw it up, you get pushed off the dock, no harm no foul, and try again. But seriously, if one can't approach a dock and secure a moderately sized sailboat to it by themselves in 20 knots of wind that's mostly along the dock, maybe they shouldn't be singlehanding that vessel? Once secured to the dock by a bow, stern, and spring line, just as when on a mooring, your boat sits bow to the wind and held about 2' off the dock by your bow/stern lines and the portion of the wind that's blowing it off the dock as you launch your dinghy and rig the line to the buoy.

Much simpler maneuver to have the stern already about where you want it to end up with only the bow to rotate away from the dock, as opposed to having to singlehandedly rotate your boat more than 90 degrees and then pull the stern in, against the wind, quite a distance as you are simultaneously paying out the bow line, all without sagging to leeward and hitting that boat that you said "Murphys Law" caused to pull in right next you, which he couldn't have done while you were tied alongside, with your boat occupying that spot when he arrived on the scene. Also, if the buoys are set up approximately 20' apart in a line, and with the wind mostly parallel to the dock (and the line of buoys) you temporarily moor your 20'+ boat to one of them, it seems to me there's a pretty fair chance that your propeller or rudder will foul an adjacent buoy or even the one beyond that, not good. Someone may have mentioned it but I haven't noticed anyone spelling out how they plan to avoid getting their prop, shaft, or rudder entangled with the other buoys as they leave their boat to take a line ashore or as they swing their stern through that line of buoys while they are pulling it into shore?

Most of us have a powered winch (windlass) on the bow to assist in securely pulling and securing the bow out to where it needs to be. It's possible to rig one of your sheet winches to help with this task while pulling the stern in, but a lot more awkward than just using the windlass. Just as many other sailboats are, mine is equipped with a windlass remote control at the helm so I could put my boat in idle forward while still alongside the dock and the line from the buoy rigged through a bow roller, a few turns around the capstan on the bow, and led back to the helm area. Then loosen my stern line (that's led around a cleat on the dock and back to my stern cleat so I can control it's length from aboard) by a couple of feet (so as the boat swings away from the dock the stern won't hit), remove my now unnecessary spring and then bow line, give my bow a shove away from the dock (or use bow thruster once I'm aboard) and step back aboard and to the helm as the wind begins to blow my bow away from the dock, taking up the slack in the line to the buoy manually and/or using the windlass remote. But even without the windlass remote the same thing can be accomplished from the foredeck because there's no real need to be at the helm since the engine will remain in approximately idle (depending on wind strength) forward gear throughout the repositioning of the bow. Once I'm satisfied the tension in the bow line is adequate to keep my stern from hitting against the dock I can secure the engine that's still in forward gear and make any final adjustment to my stern line(s) to get my spacing from the dock just where I want it to be.

As you say, people ashore "might" see what you are doing and decide to come out to you to offer to help with their dinghy so you won't have to launch yours, but that's much more likely if you are ashore and greeting them face to face so you can spell out exactly what you are planning and how they might be of assistance.

[Pelagic]

I think we all agree it is a personal decision based on the situation, the boats ergonomics, your comfort level and the prevailing conditions.

That is what I love about boating
...the dynamics force you to reassess your methods on a regular basis
I am sure DH will not get himself into the same pickle again
We have so many other pickles waiting their turn![emoji1]

[David B]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

I haven't tried this maneuver yet, but it works in my mind.

Back up to the sea wall and make fast a line to the windward quarter.

Power ahead while easing the line out to the point where you can grab the bouy from the bow.

Set the autopilot to maintain a compass heading that keeps the bouy in reach.

Stroll forward and tie off to the bouy.

Then at your leisure adjust the lines and add a second stern line.

Now I'll just need to find a place in the Houston are to try this.

Agreed.
Reverse in and get a line on the windward quarter. Then with power on, you are held off the dock and with helm, possibly assisted with bow thruster, you can control the bow and get a bow line organised.

Sounds easy, but of course in practice, things are not always ideal.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I think both methods could work but disagree which is easier or more conservative for quite a few reasons. While coming alongside first is only
possible if there's a sparsely populated dock that has room to do that, if that condition does exist I think it would be much easier and less risky than trying to pull your stern in from a buoy.

First, I feel that a solo person should NOT be in need of help to come alongside in 20 knots of wind that's only partially away from the dock. If you do manage to screw it up, you get pushed off the dock, no harm no foul, and try again. But seriously, if one can't approach a dock and secure a moderately sized sailboat to it by themselves in 20 knots of wind that's mostly along the dock, maybe they shouldn't be singlehanding that vessel? Once secured to the dock by a bow, stern, and spring line, just as when on a mooring, your boat sits bow to the wind and held about 2' off the dock by your bow/stern lines and the portion of the wind that's blowing it off the dock as you launch your dinghy and rig the line to the buoy.

Much simpler maneuver to have the stern already about where you want it to end up with only the bow to rotate away from the dock, as opposed to having to singlehandedly rotate your boat more than 90 degrees and then pull the stern in, against the wind, quite a distance as you are simultaneously paying out the bow line, all without sagging to leeward and hitting that boat that you said "Murphys Law" caused to pull in right next you, which he couldn't have done while you were tied alongside, with your boat occupying that spot when he arrived on the scene. Also, if the buoys are set up approximately 20' apart in a line, and with the wind mostly parallel to the dock (and the line of buoys) you temporarily moor your 20'+ boat to one of them, it seems to me there's a pretty fair chance that your propeller or rudder will foul an adjacent buoy or even the one beyond that, not good. Someone may have mentioned it but I haven't noticed anyone spelling out how they plan to avoid getting their prop, shaft, or rudder entangled with the other buoys as they leave their boat to take a line ashore or as they swing their stern through that line of buoys while they are pulling it into shore?

Most of us have a powered winch (windlass) on the bow to assist in securely pulling and securing the bow out to where it needs to be. It's possible to rig one of your sheet winches to help with this task while pulling the stern in, but a lot more awkward than just using the windlass. Just as many other sailboats are, mine is equipped with a windlass remote control at the helm so I could put my boat in idle forward while still alongside the dock and the line from the buoy rigged through a bow roller, a few turns around the capstan on the bow, and led back to the helm area. Then loosen my stern line (that's led around a cleat on the dock and back to my stern cleat so I can control it's length from aboard) by a couple of feet (so as the boat swings away from the dock the stern won't hit), remove my now unnecessary spring and then bow line, give my bow a shove away from the dock (or use bow thruster once I'm aboard) and step back aboard and to the helm as the wind begins to blow my bow away from the dock, taking up the slack in the line to the buoy manually and/or using the windlass remote. But even without the windlass remote the same thing can be accomplished from the foredeck because there's no real need to be at the helm since the engine will remain in approximately idle (depending on wind strength) forward gear throughout the repositioning of the bow. Once I'm satisfied the tension in the bow line is adequate to keep my stern from hitting against the dock I can secure the engine that's still in forward gear and make any final adjustment to my stern line(s) to get my spacing from the dock just where I want it to be.

As you say, people ashore "might" see what you are doing and decide to come out to you to offer to help with their dinghy so you won't have to launch yours, but that's much more likely if you are ashore and greeting them face to face so you can spell out exactly what you are planning and how they might be of assistance.

A very good analysis

I agree both ways can work.

I also agree that coming alongside singlehanded in 20 knots of wind from whatever direction should not be beyond the skill level of the average sailor, barring some unusual circumstance.

And actually -- I think I could have gotten a line on the dock without actually tying up -- rig the windward stern line, lasso a cleat, and head off to the buoy.

Only problem with this is that the buoy was crosswind and downwind, and the sidewind force was too much for me to hold the bow with the thruster, and the downwind force would reduce control.

So I guess even so, taking the line out with the dinghy would have been the prudent way to do it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

. . . We have so many other pickles waiting their turn![emoji1]

Ain't it the truth!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Dockhead,

Sounds like you tried the textbook Med approach, which works well enough if you have the lines measured correctly, or a couple extra hands to handle them while you're in the cockpit.

In the situation you mentioned, I might have chosen to gone alongside the quay, head into the wind, put a line out through a midship fairlead and back to a winch ready to pay out. Rig for the buoy on the opposite side. Put on just enough throttle to hold against the wind, and start paying out the dockline (use bow thruster too if necessary) to move the boat sideways out to the buoy. Snub the dockline, and casually pick up the buoy. Move dockline to the stern and bring her into position with lines only.

Yet another approach I never thought of.

This is really good!

This would have worked really well in my case because the wind was blowing me off as well as to the side. So I could have used gentle forward power to keep from being blown down, while letting the wind blow me away from the dock. Like that just slowly (like I like it!) and gently move towards the buoy, approaching it from the beam (like I like it!). Brilliant. Thanks for this.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Tx J

(I've only read a couple of pages so far, so this may have been covered)

Dockhead,
Have you (and any others) considered installing a 'surveillance' type camera forward (or one or more in other locations)? Almost as good as a crewmember on the bow (EG: in your scenario).

These cameras, with minimal cost and power needs, are cheap today; the outdoor models are weatherproof.
For a little more you can get HD resolutions and PTZ (Pan-Tilt-Zoom), highly desirable features. Most have 2-way audible too, perfect for your situation, eh?
Whether wired or wireless (ideal) they can feed into many chartplotter displays (not likely to be using it for CP or radar at this time), or a tablet/smartphone/PC display; whatever works in the cockpit.
With little effort these cameras can also be remoted to your phone or tablet while off the boat, useful for many reasons.

Mounting one on the mast shouldn't be too difficult, it might need a little protection from the jib, there may already be a power feed in there (many of these cams appear to use AC from a wallwart, but a check of the wallwart's output may find that the cam's actually running on DC, maybe even 12V).

I've seen marine-market cams from Ray, Thales, etc., costing as much as a decent boat or new vehicle ($20K+). Unless you're a comm'l, rlybigyacht, or naval vessel, with a need for super-optics, such a cost is nuts.
Sure, probably great devices, but you can get a decent survcam today for $100-800, with most of the bells and whistles.


Finding (like from Newegg), fitting the cam(s), displaying the image feed, networking it, etc., is just another set of 'boat chores'...

I have always wanted a PTZ camera up the mast, and in fact, my mast is wired for one. I put in the wiring when I had my mast down four years ago. Never got around to installing it. Yes, such a thing would be really extremely valuable in a situation like this -- I agree.

[weavis]

This what I do. 28 knots cross wind.

Motor only, bow thruster.
If it goes wrong.... everything is toast. Dinghy on one side with outboard running. bow thruster keeping it centred... fenders on back. jump off, tie off two lines.. pick up bow line from water or edge forward drop anchor and reverse again. Works best if you use someone elses boat...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJM8nOYosRc

[hoppy]

Med mooring solo using the anchor is a piece of cake. Med mooring solo using lazy lines can be a bit of a challenge with a cross breeze.

I'm stuffed if I know how I'd go med mooring and hooking onto a buoy. I'm glad I've never encountered that. As I don't have a bow thruster at least I'd not be falling into a trap believing it would help

I've had a few screwups docking in my current marina berth and one boat nearby always seemed to have people in the cockpit watching my screw ups. I was quietly amused when I watched them not slow up in time and crashed in to the dock last week

[Kenomac]

Point of information:

A bowthruster can only be used for short bursts. If you try to use one for more than forty five seconds or so continuously, it will shut down due the the thermal shut off kill switch. Then you need to wait for a considerable amount of time for it to cool down before it can be used again. To give a better idea, on a dead calm day (no wind), if I try to use the bowthruster to spin the boat three hundred sixty degrees, it will only make it to about two forty before the thruster shuts down. Very short bursts only and they can't counter 20-28 knots of wind.

They dont work like the ones on cruise ships.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Point of information:

A bowthruster can only be used for short bursts. If you try to use one for more than forty five seconds or so continuously, it will shut down due the the thermal shut off kill switch. Then you need to wait for a considerable amount of time for it to cool down before it can be used again. To give a better idea, on a calm day if I try to use the bowthruster to spin the boat three hundred sixty degrees, it will only make it to about two forty before it shuts down. Very short bursts only and they can't counter 20-28 knots of wind.

They dont work like the ones on cruise ships.

Very true. And even more so once you've bent your thruster propellor!

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Point of information:

A bowthruster can only be used for short bursts. If you try to use one for more than forty five seconds or so continuously, it will shut down due the the thermal shut off kill switch. Then you need to wait for a considerable amount of time for it to cool down before it can be used again. To give a better idea, on a dead calm day (no wind), if I try to use the bowthruster to spin the boat three hundred sixty degrees, it will only make it to about two forty before the thruster shuts down. Very short bursts only and they can't counter 20-28 knots of wind.

They dont work like the ones on cruise ships.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Very true. And even more so once you've bent your thruster propellor!

I just didn't want anyone to believe a bowthruster could in any way solve this issue. I've seen too many people panic on a windy day thinking their bowthruster can overcome the wind which is pushing their boat, and leave it running until it quits. Then they have a real mess on their hands... it's hard to watch from the dock.

The bowthruster is really just an aid for steering, you really shouldn't ever get yourself in a situation where you can't get out of it, by not using one. Basically, always pretend you don't have one, then use it to make life easier.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I just didn't want anyone to believe a bowthruster could in any way solve this issue. I've seen too many people panic on a windy day thinking their bowthruster can overcome the wind which is pushing their boat, and leave it running until it quits. Then they have a real mess on their hands... it's hard to watch from the dock.

The bowthruster is really just an aid for steering, you really shouldn't ever get yourself in a situation where you can't get out of it, by not using one. Basically, always pretend you don't have one, then use it to make life easier.

I agree completely.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The bowthruster is really just an aid for steering, you really shouldn't ever get yourself in a situation where you can't get out of it, by not using one. Basically, always pretend you don't have one, then use it to make life easier.

Bowthrusters create laziness in mind and behaviour. I'm glad I never got one fitted to my boat as I probably would get myself in a heap of trouble when it fails.

If I were to get a bigger boat I would get one now that I have done my apprenticeship without one