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Old 04-10-2015, 01:43   #106
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Oh, Nick, I had to chuckle when I read that.

It made me wonder, if people faeces is about one ounce per each 12 pounds of body wieight, then how much faeces do whales produce? And think of the coral reefs, fish plus polyps! The mind boggles!

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A lot. Should be humbling to the folks who think their poo makes any difference anywhere.
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Old 04-10-2015, 02:37   #107
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

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Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599 View Post
I think it's amazing if not amusing, that we can write so much about CRAP and still not agree on how to dispose of it ... I believe the Chinese spread it on their produce fields ... a good enough reason for me NOT to buy Chinese products but,

Not just the Chinese. All farmers did this, in Europe and the US as well. Organic farmers still do this.

Human waste is not an environmental problem. Its perfectly natural, and 100% organic after all...
It's a hygiene and esthetics problem.
Once you get that it becomes immediately obvious why you don't dump it in a crowded anchorage, but can dump it when off shore.


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Old 04-10-2015, 02:53   #108
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

I am just surprised that more people do not go the composting heads route whilst also getting rid of the holding tank at the same time. We bought our first composting loo just two years ago. We changed one head and kept the second one with its holding tank so we had a choice. Our future heads arrangements shall be composting only. The only issue is the constant need to empty the wet bottle.




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Not just the Chinese. All farmers did this, in Europe and the US as well. Organic farmers still do this.

Human waste is not an environmental problem. Its perfectly natural, and 100% organic after all...
It's a hygiene and esthetics problem.
Once you get that it becomes immediately obvious why you don't dump it in a crowded anchorage, but can dump it when off shore.


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Old 04-10-2015, 03:00   #109
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

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Originally Posted by Bulawayo View Post
I am just surprised that more people do not go the composting heads route whilst also getting rid of the holding tank at the same time. We bought our first composting loo just two years ago. We changed one head and kept the second one with its holding tank so we had a choice. Our future heads arrangements shall be composting only. The only issue is the constant need to empty the wet bottle.
On the Centaur, just last week, Nephew put a small pump to a Y valve which goes to a small holding tank or overboard for the urine. A powered float ensures it never gets more than 1/4 full. I suggested it after some comments here from peops who had done it, and he done dun it!

Havent seen it yet so cant elaborate.

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Old 04-10-2015, 06:26   #110
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

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Originally Posted by Catnut View Post
We are cruising the Greek islands and use our holding tanks all the time. Usually we are anchored in bays or in small ports where we and the crews of the boats around us go swimming several times a day, off the back of the boats. It helps that the water temp is 28 - 30 deg C !
Also, we use our salt water tap in the galley to rinse our dishes before washing in fresh water. So don't want to be parked in sewage. There is not much of a tidal range here.

It is so easy to open the holding tanks on passage and then close them on entering an anchorage or harbour, that for us it's a no brainer.
...
I do the same.

Answering to the OP, if I am on an anchorage with clear water and I see a near by boat make a discharge of **** you can be sure that I would call the skipper and ask him if he has no shame or civility, implying that he is an anti-social creature without manners or respect to the others. If he would be ashamed with that or just pissed at me...I don't know.
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Old 04-10-2015, 10:07   #111
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

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That's bull. It's natural vegetation (ever heard of Sargassum seaweed?). Have passed by that several times in the Gulf of Mexico. As if cruise ships stop in the middle of the ocean and then pump out. Don't be so gullible.
A bit late and not sure if the above is sarcasm. However cruiseships definitely do pump out. Unfortunately not only in the middle of the ocean, but also in the Baltic which resembles a large lake in size and salinity. This was big news this summer here in Finland. Hopefully the Baltic states will have legislation prohibiting this soon.

The legal limit here is 12nm from shore. Holding tank is a legal requirement, if you have a toilet.

The pic does not look like sargasso, looks like s##tto me.
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Old 04-10-2015, 11:12   #112
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

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Originally Posted by Sandibar View Post
...

The legal limit here is 12nm from shore. Holding tank is a legal requirement, if you have a toilet.
...
That is also one of the problems. Around here he say it is 8 or 80 meaning that a problem is often disregarded and later treated with unnecessarily hard measures, like it happened in Turkey where even grey water (from washing) is forbidden to discharge on territorial waters.

As it is said here it is not the discharge in itself (all animals do it on the nature and will end up on the sea) but the quantity and most of all the place. 12 nm seems vastly exaggerated to me. Regarding yachts I don't think the quantity is meaningful, the local where it is discharged yes.

If we are not talking about a closed golf 2 miles outside is more than enough. Exaggerated measures only lead to the non compliance with the rules, like it happens on Turkey where the authorities don't know really what to do with the law and just look to the other side.
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Old 04-10-2015, 11:22   #113
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

I am not an overly fastidious person. I think every child should have their daily ration of dirt and I don't obsess over how clean my kitchen has to be. But I wash my hands after pooping. I don't pump over in anchorages.

Fish and seal poop, or for that matter dog poop, is different from a health point of view from human poop. Many chronic diseases are very specie specific. They are transmitted only between animals of the same specie. Sometimes there are intermediary species in a food chain, like malaria with mosquitoes and people. But you are unlikely to catch a bad disease from whale poop. I have dove on many a reef and watched the fish poop directly in front of me. That does not gross me out.

But humans carry specific critters, many of which are discharged in their feces. Some of the critters, bacteria primarily, are not only safe but they are required for health. And even within a genus of bacteria, like E. coli, some species are deadly to humans if ingested, while healthy individuals have many E. coli in their guts who help digest food. Many third world epidemics are promoted by lack of sanitary facilities. The aftermath of the earthquake in Haiti a few years ago caused enormous physical damage, including killing/maiming people. But the real problem was the lack of good water and sanitary conditions because the infrastructure was not longer there or working to provide clean water and pooping facilities. People have to poop close to their homes, on the ground. Then it gets in the water. Then it kills people. Many people continue to die from that. It doesn't kill the dogs and cats, but it does kill other people.

I do not care to swim where other cruisers throw their untreated poop overboard, whether in chunks or via macerators. And people don't use direct macerators, they are almost always only used to pump out holding tanks. And the people who are too cheap or whatever to have holding tanks are not the ones who will turn on a macerator while they take a dump that goes direct overboard.

Human waste is the problem. It is the reason it is illegal to pump out close to shore. Not getting caught does not make it right. And the cruise ships are starting to get caught, at least on the Pacific coast, even off of Mexico. They are trying to be cheap too. Any one I catch in an anchorage will get shamed to the utmost, and not just by me. Word of this crap is passed along real time between cruisers. Not right, not healthy, not legal, not welcome.
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Old 08-11-2015, 08:46   #114
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

Until recently the charters in the BVI had no holding tanks. Now they do and ask that you empty them 1 mile off shore. There are no pump out stations. Human waste is a health hazard for e. Coli and viruses. The salt water reduces the risk. I obey any and all laws. For anyone who wants to impose their standards on me while out on the water. I assure you you will regret it. Live to your standards first and leave others alone.



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Old 08-11-2015, 08:56   #115
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

When I eventually cruise offshore I will use a holding tank and pump out inshore. I will spend the $1100 for a Raritan electro San and a macerator.


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Old 08-11-2015, 10:38   #116
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

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Originally Posted by dangerfield55 View Post
Until recently the charters in the BVI had no holding tanks. Now they do and ask that you empty them 1 mile off shore. There are no pump out stations. Human waste is a health hazard for e. Coli and viruses. The salt water reduces the risk. I obey any and all laws. For anyone who wants to impose their standards on me while out on the water. I assure you you will regret it. Live to your standards first and leave others alone.



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One thing for sure, I will make a point of not running in to you, but pray tell how I will regret anything if I did? Is that a threat of some sort? For sake of conversation. I assure you I will not make you regret something but you may not be a boat/person that I would choose to be near.
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:00   #117
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

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Originally Posted by dangerfield55 View Post
Until recently the charters in the BVI had no holding tanks. Now they do and ask that you empty them 1 mile off shore. There are no pump out stations. Human waste is a health hazard for e. Coli and viruses. The salt water reduces the risk. I obey any and all laws. For anyone who wants to impose their standards on me while out on the water. I assure you you will regret it. Live to your standards first and leave others alone.



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Point of fact: Human viruses do not and cannot live in seawater. E. Coil cannot live or survive for any length of time in seawater due to salinity and temperature. Look it up.
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:15   #118
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

I respect your right to live according to your values. I was responding to a suggestion posted to go over and enlighten someone's errant views and behavior. I never have to threaten. I mind my own business or move the boat.


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Old 08-11-2015, 11:27   #119
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

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One thing for sure, I will make a point of not running in to you, but pray tell how I will regret anything if I did? Is that a threat of some sort? For sake of conversation. I assure you I will not make you regret something but you may not be a boat/person that I would choose to be near.
Quite right. When away from the dock, "the law" is far away. When offshore, "the law" is even farther. We rely on each other to be civilized, but really, I don't know what you might have hidden beneath your dodger, just out of sight.

When I crossed the atlantic, one dark night I came upon another sailboat. We were on a course to pass quite close, in the dark. I was keen to call them on the VHF, and signal with lights so that we might have a GAM, and excited to talk to another crew. But the skipper/owner, when he awoke for his watch at 5am (I had the 11pm-5am watch every night) immediately started the engine, came about, headed away with all possible speed, and forbid me to use the vhf. I recognized his fear of the unknown vessel.

I consider this forum to be civilized, so threats are neither necessary nor welcome.
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:28   #120
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Re: Should I be ashamed?

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Until recently the charters in the BVI had no holding tanks.
Just a point of fact. Most charter boats in the BVI have been equipped with holding tanks for many years now. This is not a recent phenomenon. After all, without holding tanks you cannot go to the USVI. I do not recall having seen a BVI bareboat without holding tanks in the last 15 years.
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