Should I be ashamed?

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Green narrative B.S. Human viruses and human pathogens die upon exposer to sea water. They can't hurt you if they're dead or broken down. But if you're concerned... don't go in the water and keep on believing that they "may" hurt you.

More Green narrative B.S., from a recent AP story:

"The issue of increased testing for Rio's polluted waterways — and what to do about it — has drawn attention since an independent five-month analysis by AP published July 30 showed dangerously high levels of viruses from human sewage at all Rio Olympic water venues."

[Mutt]

Nothing is worse than going for a swim in an anchorage and having a turd float by. People who keep their valves open in anchorages are disgusting self centred poor excuses of cruisers. Please open the valves far off shore and allow others to enjoy the water.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Nothing is worse than going for a swim in an anchorage and having a turd float by. People who keep their valves open in anchorages are disgusting self centred poor excuses of cruisers. Please open the valves far off shore and allow others to enjoy the water.

So according to your self-righteousness, nearly everyone outside of the U.S. and Canada must be "disgusting self centered excuses of cruiser," since most boats outside the U.S. and Canada don't have black water tanks. I've been cruising for six years, four years here in the Med and have never, ever seen a single "turd float by."

Where do you cruise? I want to stay away from your turd infested anchorages. Are you sure they're not Pomeranian turds?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sabreline

Florida is "draconian"??Because they don't like it when you dump raw sewage into their waters? Do you let people poop in your swimming pool?

Draconian laws and application of them may or may not be justified. I was just warning the guy.

But try a little reading comprehension. If you read my posts, the "pool" in your analogy would be a 100miles wide and no one would be swiming within several miles of the few gallons of sewage dumped by boats but the pool entrance would be right next to a large municipal outfall that dumps by the thousands of gallons. In that case, I really wouldn't care if a boat dumped sewage in teh middle of the pool.

This is one of the key problems with this issue. People get emotional and leave logic behind.
- In a small bay or near swimers, there are clear well defined issues with dumping overboard.
- In open water well away from areas where people are likely to come in contact with it, the amounts involved are completely harmless.

[Geekatlrg]

What a bunch of selfish people all I hear is excuses for your laziness.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Geekatlrg

What a bunch of selfish people all I hear is excuses for your laziness.

Get over it.

Using a macerating toilet then mixing the waste with seawater (salt water), which is exactly what we do, renders the waste harmless. Kills the bacteria and viruses.

Here's the description from the Raitan site:

Raritan Lectra San MC Highlights
Microprocessor control (MC) monitors conditions inside the treatment unit and automatically informs users of changes in water conditions.
One-step activation with toilet switch or LST/MC touch pad automatically activates toilet and treatment system.
Light sequence on the Control Indicator Panel indicates system functions and changes in salt and voltage conditions.
Coated electrodes use salt water to kill bacteria and viruses without adding harmful chemicals to the sea.
Discharges with treatment levels that are safe for environmentally sensitive areas.
Eliminates the need for bulky holding tanks in areas that have not been declared No Discharge Zones by the U.S. EPA.
Treats each flush as waste is generated.
Can be used with two marine toilets.
Can be used with both manual and electric toilets.

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Get over it.

Using a macerating toilet then mixing the waste with seawater (salt water), which is exactly what we do, renders the waste harmless. Kills the bacteria and viruses.

Here's the description from the Raitan site:

Raritan Lectra San MC Highlights
Microprocessor control (MC) monitors conditions inside the treatment unit and automatically informs users of changes in water conditions.
One-step activation with toilet switch or LST/MC touch pad automatically activates toilet and treatment system.
Light sequence on the Control Indicator Panel indicates system functions and changes in salt and voltage conditions.
Coated electrodes use salt water to kill bacteria and viruses without adding harmful chemicals to the sea.
Discharges with treatment levels that are safe for environmentally sensitive areas.
Eliminates the need for bulky holding tanks in areas that have not been declared No Discharge Zones by the U.S. EPA.
Treats each flush as waste is generated.
Can be used with two marine toilets.
Can be used with both manual and electric toilets.

I think an Electroscan works by electrolitically separating the salt in sea water into sodium and chlorine. It is the chlorine that kills the bugs, not the sea water. This is how salt-water pools work. There is no similar natural process that produces chlorine in the ocean, as far as I kknow.

[Palarran]

In response to the thread title - Yes you should be. To always dump your black water overboard regardless of where you are when you have the easy ability to not do so, is shameful.

Having said that, I used to do the same thing. That was in the Caribbean and the boat was new to me. Then I invited my Mother to join me for a week. One day we were off a beach and she did her business. Right afterwards she found out about the direct discharge, became upset to the point of crying and proclaiming she would never come back on the boat because people on the beach could be swimming in her poo. That was the end of the direct discharging from Palarran.

Now we discharge offshore except in Turkey where it is illegal. There really is no justifiable reason not to if you have holding tanks. If you don't, IMO you should examine your budget and fit in an installation at some point. It's the right thing to do, even if it doesn't make someone ill.

A real positive benefit has been the reduced sewage smell and the ability to swim without worrying about someone even taking a pee let alone poop on your own boat. I've never seen large chunks of stuff floating by but witnessed a lot of ground toilet paper in suspension before (not in the Caribbean, only in the Med). I just don't think it's the right thing to do for your neighbors and your guests.

[TrentePieds]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Nothing is worse than going for a swim in an anchorage and having a turd float by. People who keep their valves open in anchorages are disgusting self centred poor excuses of cruisers. Please open the valves far off shore and allow others to enjoy the water.

Is anybody up to date the specific gravity of turd :-0)? "Floaters" have to be uncommon, but perhaps under "winter, North Atlantic" conditions it's possible. Do we need to think in terms of Plimsol Lines and inspection by, say, Norske Veritas? Lloyd's wouldn't do it. They are BRITISH !!

Cheers

TrentePieds

[Sailorbob8599]

I have a question: Is there a law anywhere in N.America that says you MUST have a toilet on a boat? ... If not, then the old 'bucket & chuckit' system can and should prevail.
Also, I believe manufacturers of marine toilets and associated paraphernalia my well be the culprits of driving legislation to enforce installation of all this crappery.
Anyhoo, being a bit of a green freak myself and thinking it was the 'right' thing to do, I had a holding tank installed in my 24' cutter, including a Y valve and a Macerator pump. When the plumber had finished, I discovered his handy work, and the equipment he installed, took up most of the space in my Vee berth storage bins . . . I'm now very sorry I had the system installed.
After launching my boat for the first time, and knowing the plumber did not test the system, I instructed all crew members to NOT use the head until I tested and approved it for use. Unfortunately for me, my 3yo great grandson was not included in the discussion. Needless to say, when he had to go . . . he went. Furthermore, he flushed the system vigorously, pumping it far more than was required. I will admit, he did a good job of it.
It was only when my wife entered the forward cabin, we became aware there had been a severe leak at the angled outlet fitting at the joker valve and so, I had a very crappy job yesterday, cleaning up the mess.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

I have a question: Is there a law anywhere in N.America that says you MUST have a toilet on a boat?

Here in Canada you are not required to have a "head" on your boat. However, if you want to have alcohol on your boat, or drink alcohol on your boat, the law says you must have a head on your boat. I've seen some pretty impressively small heads on small boats here to satisfy that law.

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

I have a question: Is there a law anywhere in N.America that says you MUST have a toilet on a boat? ... If not, then the old 'bucket & chuckit' system can and should prevail.

There is no requirement to have a toilet on a boat in the US. Most boats don't.

However, according to Peggie Hall's excellent book, US law does prohibit "bucket and chuck it" of raw sewage in coastal waters (generally within 3 miles of the coast). However, if you want to hang your butt over the stern rail, eliminating the intermediate bucket step, that's legal.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Get over it.

Using a macerating toilet then mixing the waste with seawater (salt water), which is exactly what we do, renders the waste harmless. Kills the bacteria and viruses.

Bureaucrats tend to be lazy and write lazy rules without acknowedging that every situation has its own best solution.
There are a lot of lazy thinkers out there, and on this thread, who get carried away by some dumb bureaucratic rule and think the science behind it is all embracing.

[TrentePieds]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Here in Canada you are not required to have a "head" on your boat. However, if you want to have alcohol on your boat, or drink alcohol on your boat, the law says you must have a head on your boat. I've seen some pretty impressively small heads on small boats here to satisfy that law.

New one on me - but of course I never touch the stuff ;-) Can you give me a reference?

TrentePieds

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Here in Canada you are not required to have a "head" on your boat. However, if you want to have alcohol on your boat, or drink alcohol on your boat, the law says you must have a head on your boat. I've seen some pretty impressively small heads on small boats here to satisfy that law.

Methinks you must be confused. You probably meant if you have a head on your beer???

Yes, that's a new one on me too. You said "only in Canada?" Is that central Canada? ... Because I've asked a few sailors on the dock today, and none of them have ever heard of that 'ruling' ... reference please?