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Old 10-08-2009, 12:40   #16
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thanks Peter. more good advice.
just did some research on Stugeron.
be very careful with this stuff especially
if you get it in mexico because they don't
label the dosage.
I understand it comes in 75mg tablets down there which is
twice the recommended dosage.
People don't realize this and take the whole tablet with horrible side effects for some.
But others swear by it with no side effects.
Guess everyone is different for sure.
A few years ago I was talking to a diver and he told me to eat an apple before going out.
I did along with a dramamine and had a lovely day on the water in a small powerboat with a moderate chop.
Did the same thing the next day with a little more wind and wave conditions and felt the serpents coiling in my gut before we even got out of the harbor.
FRUSTRATING!!
I'll have to figure this one out using trial and error I guess.
I truly love being out there but MAN, there is nothing like wishing to god the boat would stop moving when you know damn well it is NEVER going to stop moving...ever.
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Old 10-08-2009, 14:06   #17
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You just have to keep trying different things (and combinations).

I would definitely try Stugeron. It seems to work for more people with fewer side effects. Just the regular 15mg size that's sold over the counter in the UK. Americans can get it from Canada without prescription (see the link below)

Start the Scopaline 12 hours or more before the cruise. This makes a big difference.

Experiment with Scopalamine. It's now available as a pill that makes it easier to use smaller doses than the patch. For some, it's a miracle answer. For many the side effects are too much.

Always do the basic stuff too - ginger snaps, hydration, steering, fresh air.

Best piece on seasickness I've seen is from the Neals:

Mahina Expedition - Offshore Cruising Instruction

It turns out that Charles Darwin was violently seasick whenever the Beagle was at sea. He wouldn't get better after three days but stayed sick from anchor up to anchor down. He still made it around the world but stops like the Galapagos were welcome respites from seasickness. Perhaps he wouldn't have developed the theory of evolution otherwise

Carl
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Old 10-08-2009, 18:14   #18
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There is also a medication available in suppository form, which is handy if you are vomiting. Regards, Richard.
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Old 10-08-2009, 20:06   #19
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Try them out

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Originally Posted by Talbot View Post
Those patches can be really dangerous, if you put too many of them on!

Personally prefer Hyoscine Hydrobromide (Kwells) I dont get so tired as the Scopalomine. Best cure is ten minutes hugging a tree in the middle of a forest!
Scopolomine was a miracle for me, so I'd try several remedies on dry land first; then try those that don't give side effects at sea, too. Scopolomine must not be used with alcohol, nor if suffering from glaucoma. Drowsiness from remedies can be counteracted with caffeine wake up pills.

Lastly, don't put too many on!
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Old 11-08-2009, 13:11   #20
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A few of my offshore crewmembers have had problems with seasickness. The remedies that I've observed being tried are

crystalized ginger
ginger candy
ginger snap cookies
ginger beer (non-alcoholic)
powdered ginger capsules
wrist bands (accupressure)
electronic wrist bands
Bonine tabs
Dramamine tabs
Stugeron tabs
Scopolamine transdermal patches
Phynergan transdermal swabs

It's hard to objectively judge the effectiveness of any of these measures, but the Stugeron seemed to be the most effective, in that the individuals taking it were still a bit queasy and had diminished appetite, whereas they had felt a lot worse on other offshore trips during which they'd tried other remedies. Transderm Scop seems to be the second best, based on what I've seen firsthand.

One person who sailed offshore with me a number of times, had tried almost everything without any real success. He finally just gave up and took to munching Saltine crackers while feeling miserable.

Another crew (first time on my boat) was seriously seasick for a week and a half. He was using the Phenergan transdermal swabs (prescription only), which allow the drug to be absorbed through the skin on his wrists, unlike a tablet that must be swallowed and kept down to do it's work. I can only say that if he had been any sicker, we would have tried to find a way to evacuate him. If he'd been sailing his own boat single-handed, he'd have been in a real pickle.

It's critical to know how various motions experienced offshore affect you, and if needed, which seasickness remedies work for you. You need to get out there and find out. If you discover that you're one of the few who get very sick and can't find a remedy that works well, solo passage-making is probably not a realistic option for you.
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Old 11-08-2009, 15:06   #21
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Fascinating variations

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Originally Posted by Hud3 View Post
A few of my offshore crewmembers have had problems with seasickness. The remedies that I've observed being tried are

crystalized ginger
ginger candy
ginger snap cookies
ginger beer (non-alcoholic)
powdered ginger capsules
wrist bands (accupressure)
electronic wrist bands
Bonine tabs
Dramamine tabs
Stugeron tabs
Scopolamine transdermal patches
Phynergan transdermal swabs

It's hard to objectively judge the effectiveness of any of these measures, but the Stugeron seemed to be the most effective, in that the individuals taking it were still a bit queasy and had diminished appetite, whereas they had felt a lot worse on other offshore trips during which they'd tried other remedies. Transderm Scop seems to be the second best, based on what I've seen firsthand......
The miraculous scopolomine that I tried in the 1980's was a 24 hour timed release capsule with vit B6 and caffeine. Of course this would work well for only a part of the spectrum of patients: when taken 40 minutes before sailing; 90 minutes before any boisterous close hauled work.

It was direct from Cibie ? Switzerland. When their 8 hour pill came out a few years later that worked just as well for me. I only ever took one pill or capsule. When I got back to Canada I could no longer find it so brought some home after my next visit to Japan. It is really the only pharmaceutical product I have ever taken seriously in 68 years. Heart medication I took just for 3 months to prevent my kind surgeon dying of worry...:~)

The availability of various forms of these essential medications appears to follow profit based territories. A shameful situation that we see repeated everywhere. So I will look for stugeron and see how it goes for me.
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Old 11-08-2009, 15:15   #22
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Only from my experiences in-shore, I found that modeling-in-your-head the motion of the boat has helped a lot. Concentrate on what the motion is, whether bow up and down, side-to-side, figure-eight combination of the two. For instance, the motion may be up-pause-left-down-right-up-pause-left down. Know the motion and watch it repeat.

Note that after a change in heading you may have to model the new motion in your head again. If you are below and start feeling queezy, then whover is at the helm probably just made a course change. re-model the motion and continue.

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Old 11-08-2009, 15:46   #23
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I'm not prone to seasickness, but I do have a stock of Bonine and "ginger" stuff (ginger tea, crystalized ginger, ginger snaps) on hand. Is there some scientific reason why ginger helps to overcome seasickness? Many people swear by it, but I have no idea why or how it works.
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Old 11-08-2009, 16:01   #24
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Couldn't we EFT, tap on that?

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Originally Posted by bene505 View Post
Only from my experiences in-shore, I found that modeling-in-your-head the motion of the boat has helped a lot. Concentrate on what the motion is, whether bow up and down, side-to-side, figure-eight combination of the two. For instance, the motion may be up-pause-left-down-right-up-pause-left down. Know the motion and watch it repeat.
...

Regards
EFT is Emotional Freedom accupressure meridian tapping. As it is also registered as 'Electronic Funds Transfer' be careful about the people you learn from. Though the good ones do make up for the black or grey sheep.

There must be a black magic tapping routine that would work together with this modelling.
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Old 11-08-2009, 16:03   #25
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Science

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I'm not prone to seasickness, but I do have a stock of Bonine and "ginger" stuff (ginger tea, crystalized ginger, ginger snaps) on hand. Is there some scientific reason why ginger helps to overcome seasickness? Many people swear by it, but I have no idea why or how it works.
If it works more often than not: That is science. If it makes $100BN a year, increasing 10% annually: that is real science...
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Old 11-08-2009, 16:58   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hud3 View Post
A few of my offshore crewmembers have had problems with seasickness. The remedies that I've observed being tried are

crystalized ginger
ginger candy
ginger snap cookies
ginger beer (non-alcoholic)
powdered ginger capsules
wrist bands (accupressure)
electronic wrist bands
Bonine tabs
Dramamine tabs
Stugeron tabs
Scopolamine transdermal patches
Phynergan transdermal swabs

....
It's a good list and I've tried most of them repeatedly. Here's my experience with them:

I find all the ginger products do help settle a slightly upset stomach or make the difference in conditions where one is just barely feeling the affects of motion, but I don't think any work anything like the more powerful medications. Forgoing any alcohol the night before and mints also help a bit. Of course not going below and focusing on the horizon are big helps, that I must often practice even when on meds.

In terms of meds, I've used Meclazine, Stugeron and the Scopolamine transderm patch. Unfortunately, all make me drowsy. All are to be used prophylactically and offer little benefit if not taken before the onset of illness.

Meclazine is the active ingredient in both Bonine and the low drowsy Dramamine. What I like about Meclazine is it can be purchased very affordably in bulk in it's generic form, making it convenient and affordable to take continually for longer term cruising. I've read that it's more effective when taken regularly and you have a certain amount in your system instead of taking it as a one shot. My personal experience is consistent with that. I find the drowsiness is the worse the day after I start taking it, but then becomes less notable as long as I keep taking it. Laying off it for a few days means going through the 1-2 day drowsy period all over again. Taking 12.5 mg in the morning and then again in the evening seems to work reasonably well. The drowsiness for me makes it a little harder to get up in the morning and almost impossible to do night watches. Once I'm up during the day, I don't feel the drowsiness, beyond that first day or two. I had one crew who was always extremely drowsy from taking it, but she may have been taking a higher dose.

The nice thing about the transdermal Scopolamine patch is that it lasts for a few days. One problem can be forgetting to swap it out at the proper time. I stopped using it because in addition to the comparable drowsiness I experienced with Meclazine, it gave me dry mouth and minor dizzy spells. Some of the side affects I've read about, but not personally experienced are even more severe.

I have not used Stugeron as often, but is also makes me drowsy. It seems comparable to Meclazine in moderate conditions, but I have not yet used it in extreme conditions, It wouldn't surprise me if it works a bit better as Hud seemed to observe with crew on his boat. It is much more expensive than Meclazine and isn't sold in pharmacies in the U.S.

I've gotten sick in fairly mild conditions wearing the wrist bands and with the 10 or so people I've seen use them have never seen any indication that they do any good what so ever. I personally don't give them much credibility, but I know some people swear by them.



I'd be very interested to hear any other accounts of people who have used both Meclazine and Stugeron in rough conditions and have a comparison of their effectiveness.
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Old 11-08-2009, 23:13   #27
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Thoughtful and informative responses all.
You guys are the best and I really appreciate
your time and effort in trying to answer this one for me.
Again, SO glad I found this site.
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Old 13-08-2009, 02:44   #28
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Lots of great advice in this post. Sea sickness is a worry of mine since I will be soloing as well. Only time I have ever felt a little nausea was when I went on a scuba trip on some really choppy seas. My cure was to gear up and get off the boat and into the water as soon as possible, once in the water I was fine and the return trip was not a problem. I believe I did a little drinking the night before but I can`t remember. I have never felt any sickness while on a sailboat, but I have never been in extreme conditions either. Once rode the bow in 8ft rollers with the sea crashing around me and that sure was fun, probably not smart but fun!
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Old 13-08-2009, 09:06   #29
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WOW What a Plethora of INFO!

The wrist bands, behind the ear patches (just 1, as noted), Phenirgen "SUPPOSITORIES"(& men Never Like to go there), Ginger (in any form)...
all gr8 answers.

Never had anybody not do well after the suppositories...
lots of folks say "I have to stick it WHERE?"(men mostly)...
ALL have had excellent results.
The disorientation/loss of equalibrium isn't completely cured however the urge to purge...is simply removed from the equation. Getting the victim on DECK (fresh air, don't ask me, it just WORKS), SEEING a Horizon of some sort, and hydrated is critical.

Salt water runs in these veins so (not trying to rub it in) fortunately I've never been seasick, carsick, airsick...nada; Have had to endure folks not so well equipped, however they usually incurred/acquired the condition (in fact in my experience ALWAYS) BELOW DECKS. Not always even in Rough Seas.

Another remedy that's also easy, just doesn't do much for the underlying condition, rather the resultant vomiting is "Pepto-Bismol". It doesn't taste gr8 either, yet settling stomachs is important. Getting folks IN the COCKPIT with their head up and around & looking outward (rather than staring at cockpit sole) along w/the ginger snaps(fresher the better)as soon as they can keep down water all seem to work. We've never had to abandon an extended cruise; we have had to abandon a couple overnights, or day cruises where the weather turned ugly (even short squalls where I KNEW it'd be passed by the time we returned to the docks & it sure enough did); when the 1 to 3's turn in to unexpected 6 to 10's on a 40' 'er & folks get nervous...that's enough to trigger the start of the process all by itself.

Carry EVERYTHING...& keep them (or yourself) hydrated as even continued vomiting is "easier" w/something to throw up, less wear on Your body, and becoming DEHYDRATED is absolutely guaranteed in this state. When alone, Keeping Yourself hydrated can be a life & death matter.
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Old 13-08-2009, 09:35   #30
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Hardest thing for the skipper is when every one but one is coping OK. If you don't solve it for the one, which means alternate or 'return to start', then you may loose a crew for future trips. It was the wife for me, she won! And hasn't been bad since.
I have been more careful at weather planning and to keep her at the helm.
Advice seems to fall on deaf ears at the time and I recommend huge doded of sympathy and including sick parties in decision discussions. If they are prepared to continue you still have to make the decision based on more than two days can get to be very serious.
Alternates can be worthwhile if they are worthwhile diversions, especially if shopping opportunities are included, or a night ashore (marina) to recover.
Our trips are convenient to the South Coast rail system so returning for the boat next weekend is always an option.
I have aclimatised myself, but periods below have to be taken in short spells. Kettle on and coffee spooned. Back in two minutes to pour and get back in the cockpit.
'Cat's pitch and roll sharper but at least the cockpit is a pretty smooth ride.
Where is that patch of water with good winds and calm seas?
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