Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-09-2014, 04:17   #121
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Boat: Ericson 27, 1978
Posts: 47
Images: 5
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

I am glad I stirred this pot up a bit with my usage of 'unseamanlike' in the same sentence as 'motoring'. Lets not forget as sailors that motors are a new thing. Lets not forget as sailors that motors are not allowed in any sailboat racing anywhere. And, lets not forget that I mentioned that I motor quite often, otherwise I could not get through the two bridges that I need to each time I want to go out unless the wind was very steady and from the correct direction. Praise to those who cruise the world in a sailboat that lacks a motor. If only we had their skill.....and patience or time.....
__________________

__________________
Oceanbrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 04:25   #122
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,883
pirate Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbrew View Post
... Praise to those who cruise the world in a sailboat that lacks a motor. If only we had their skill.....and patience or time.....
I used to feel that way, for years ... right up to buying a boat with a reliable diesel engine.
__________________

__________________
Blue Crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 04:28   #123
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbrew View Post
I am glad I stirred this pot up a bit with my usage of 'unseamanlike' in the same sentence as 'motoring'. Lets not forget as sailors that motors are a new thing. Lets not forget as sailors that motors are not allowed in any sailboat racing anywhere. And, lets not forget that I mentioned that I motor quite often, otherwise I could not get through the two bridges that I need to each time I want to go out unless the wind was very steady and from the correct direction. Praise to those who cruise the world in a sailboat that lacks a motor. If only we had their skill.....and patience or time.....
Let's not forget there are a heck of a lot more ships out there now than in 1890, they go a lot faster and in certain places not having an auxiliary engine could be downright unsafe - The Singapore Straits comes to mind...
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 07:04   #124
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,778
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Let's not forget there are a heck of a lot more ships out there now than in 1890, they go a lot faster and in certain places not having an auxiliary engine could be downright unsafe - The Singapore Straits comes to mind...
there are many places engines are needed. any major port, some crazy entrances to harbors among them
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 09:34   #125
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,964
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbrew View Post
I am glad I stirred this pot up a bit with my usage of 'unseamanlike' in the same sentence as 'motoring'. Lets not forget as sailors that motors are a new thing. Lets not forget as sailors that motors are not allowed in any sailboat racing anywhere. And, lets not forget that I mentioned that I motor quite often, otherwise I could not get through the two bridges that I need to each time I want to go out unless the wind was very steady and from the correct direction. Praise to those who cruise the world in a sailboat that lacks a motor. If only we had their skill.....and patience or time.....
Historically speaking, motors may be a new thing to sailing vessels but auxiliary power definitely is not. A bunch of seamen in rowboats towing the mother ship is often how the old sailing ships maneuvered in and around harbors, and in other no-wind situations as well.
__________________
Exile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 09:41   #126
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Historically speaking, motors may be a new thing to sailing vessels but auxiliary power definitely is not. A bunch of seamen in rowboats towing the mother ship is often how the old sailing ships maneuvered in and around harbors, and in other no-wind situations as well.
'Excellent point! The auxiliary engine seems to often replace a larger crew requirement of the past.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 10:46   #127
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,964
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
'Excellent point! The auxiliary engine seems to often replace a larger crew requirement of the past.
Either that or the OP towing his big cat with a kayak! Hats off to ya!

Reading books about the old sailing ships and their pre-diesel form of aux power does make me feel a bit better about using my diesel to maneuver my 47', 20-ton sloop with no bow thrusters. I will also use it if the choice is between making a busy or difficult harbor before nightfall or not, or if serious weather threatens. If not, I'm perfectly content bobbing around going nowhere in any hurry, but I often find that my otherwise 'gung-ho' sailing crew is not. I try to explain that, once you're already onboard a proper sailing vessel, you've already arrived at your destination!

I would imagine the captains of the old sailing ships would agree with many of the applications of aux power cited in this thread, but maybe not the guys who had to man the rowboats!
__________________
Exile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 10:55   #128
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,755
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbrew View Post
Lets not forget as sailors that motors are not allowed in any sailboat racing anywhere. ....

M m m m m . . . . . Unfortunately quite a few "Grand Prix" racing boats have canting keels (which swing side to side) and they have their motor running full time (or quite a bit of the time) to drive the hydraulics which swing the keel. The Volvo boats and the line honors winners in the Sydney to Hobart are just sone examples.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 15:00   #129
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

It has been my experience that the majority of "sailors" motor more than sail. Many do so because they are sailing on a time restriction, many because they have a specific destination and wind is irrelevant, many because they bought a sailboat they thought was beautiful but never really learned to sail, many because they bought a boat that is too large and heavy for a small crew to handle and many, although they know the basics of sailing, are insecure when the wind is anything more than light to moderate. This group is largely composed of practical people who have an agenda, a goal and a time frame. Then, there are those who do use their motor in practical, short term situations (anchoring, docking, transiting a river against the current, etc.) but always sail to their destinations and plan their passages not by time, but by the wind. They usually buy boats that sail well as their primary consideration and rig them for maximum ease and efficiency when under sail. These sailors generally do not look at their boats in a practical manner, although they are certainly so, but rather as an escape to a creative endeavor, a return to a time past of a simpler mode of transport or a necessary respite from the banality, convention and unimaginative people and life that surrounds them. You usually won't find them in the smart marinas, drinking cocktails in camp seaside bars, or nestled in crowded anchorages among the bellowing herd. You might even travel a lifetime on the water and never really meet one or if you do, you might never know. But sail they do on their own terms and their own time and for the love of sail. In the words of Webb Chiles: "A sailor is an artist whose medium is the wind." Good luck and good sailing.
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 15:06   #130
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,778
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

there are many who make generalizations about how folks not them sail vs motor and these are mainly incorrect when covering or attempting to cover ALL sailors.
not everyone fits this alleged mold, as there are folks not covered.
i do merely that which i FEEL like doing because i WANT to so do, without your alleged rationale.
might wanna research better before ye speak for all...
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 15:24   #131
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
there are many who make generalizations about how folks not them sail vs motor and these are mainly incorrect when covering or attempting to cover ALL sailors. ......................
Let's give a major plus for Zeehag in making this point! Afterall, noboby is monitoring my engine log. I doubt if anyone knows Zeehags engine timing, - who's watching yours? Yes, this is is all generalizations and speculation and mostly people thinking that they must be doing something better than those others!
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 15:28   #132
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

"not everyone fits this alleged mold, as there are folks not covered.
i do merely that which i FEEL like doing because i WANT to so do, without your alleged rationale.
might wanna research better before ye speak for all... " Zeehag
__________________


Zeehag,
I wasn't writing a research paper for your or others approval . . . I was expressing my opinion. That should have been very clear. Good luck and good sailing.
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 15:55   #133
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
It has been my experience that the majority of "sailors" motor more than sail. Many do so because they are sailing on a time restriction, many because they have a specific destination and wind is irrelevant, many because they bought a sailboat they thought was beautiful but never really learned to sail, many because they bought a boat that is too large and heavy for a small crew to handle and many, although they know the basics of sailing, are insecure when the wind is anything more than light to moderate. .....................
You might be right! I think Zeehag's point and I'm sure my own point is that you are making claims about these "many" with only subjective thoughts. I will be quick to point out that I motor whenever I please and, at the same time, I've enjoyed many thousands of hours sailing. When you say, "it has been my experience" is this not the experience you have from you own helm? I will admit that it has been my experience that, when sailing at my own helm, most of the sailboats passing me are motoring too! I just hesitate to accept any unfounded data, but I'll close by saying again, you might be right!
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 16:12   #134
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,416
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
I'm much more disturbed by BIG $$$ stinkboats... why do so many of them run at that inefficient speed where they're pushing the biggest possible wave, just under planing speed? Couple that with their disregard for sailboats, and always crossing in front... Grrrr.
I pull the throttle to idle and turn into the wake if it is a biggie (a boat in the background is doing the same maneuver).



When I had a sailboat I made similar maneuvers (but without a throttle) or surfed down the wave.

Question: are these sailors going to jibe in front of me?

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 16:36   #135
Registered User
 
s/vAngel's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
Boat: Bayfield29, 31loa bowsprit
Posts: 61
Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

As a powerboater who is now on a sailboat, I'm enjoying this thread. I used to get this impression that when ever I used Angel's diesel, it was something to be guilty about.
Now it's like: who cares! So nice to see mature, intelligent views. So many sailors are far more skilled (& patient, experienced, ect.) than I am at utilizing the wind and it's sooooo easy just to fire up the auxiliary.
I've met plenty who playfully joke with me about my "stinkpotterness," but in reality it was no big deal. It's not cheating to use a screwdriver to repair something, it surely isn't cheating to reach port using whatever resources the boat's equipped with.
I LOVE my other boat, a flatsboat, love the speed and had rebuilt her V-4's powerhead for performance. Also LOVE the serenity of sail. There's value to each, but that's just one biased boaters opinion:-p
__________________

__________________
s/vAngel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
heating, motor, sail, sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.