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Old 01-12-2013, 06:39   #76
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

In the bay, it's under sail since we have no real destination. Only turn on the motor to head back up the channel and dock. If I'm going somewhere off shore, there is usually a weather window and my motor/no motor decision is based on that window. I have no problem switching on the iron genny at 4kt+ to get there. Better that then be caught out in bad weather.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:16   #77
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

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Originally Posted by thelifenomadik View Post
This is all fine, I guess, I just don't like when people motor when they don't have to.

No one has to motor, ever!
Not even with no wind. We could wait, or scull along. We could trade our boat for a canoe or a paddle board. We could swim.

Its all a personal choice. We do what we like doing, and most of us try not to upset others doing it.

We might have our own views on boating. I'm not fond of with anything that uses gallons of fuel per minute for entertainment, but most sailboats and full displacement cruisers use very little fuel.

I can appreciate a Folkboat sailing to the dock, or an electric cruiser running on solar and batteries, or a Dad motoring around in his sailboat with his 3 toddlers. They are all winners in my book.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:38   #78
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

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Originally Posted by Kokanee View Post
No one has to motor, ever!
Not even with no wind. We could wait, or scull along.
That sounds awesome and I did it for 15 years on small racing catamarans (that didn't have engines) usually in nice weather in Florida, but up here when it's cold and the waves are rather close and large and the wind has recently dropped, if you have an engine my bet is you will crank it up and run before the waves.

Otherwise the close, steep 5' - 7' waves will wet you and have your boat pitching, and poling, yawing, going up and down, but not really getting anywhere. And good luck trying to pull it with a kayak with water temp around 50; air temps in the 40's

That's why on my boat I crank up the big 5hp outboard and cruise on ..............
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Old 01-12-2013, 14:33   #79
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

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Originally Posted by Kokanee View Post
No one has to motor, ever!
Not even with no wind. We could wait, or scull along. We could trade our boat for a canoe or a paddle board. We could swim.

Its all a personal choice. We do what we like doing, and most of us try not to upset others doing it.
You are correct, no one has to use an engine. But it is not a contest, or a game, whatever works for you.

I've known and admired many sailboat cruisers, some have engines and a couple didn't. I've been in a situation where the engine was instrumental in my survival. Long story, but it originated from a grave error on our part. Also, friend was caught in a tsunami, the big engine aboard his steel sailboat saved his life and the lives of several people he fished out of the water.

So sail, motor, or sail motor, have an engine or don't. But blanket statements just don't work when it comes to boating.
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Old 01-12-2013, 19:20   #80
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Did a 3-hour run from Vallejo to Pt. Pinole and return in eastern San Pablo Bay. Observed about 16 sailboats: all were motoring; one was motor-sailing. The wind was light but existed. Good thing sailboats have motors or they would never (with rare exception) go "sailing" let alone navigate through a marina.
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Old 01-12-2013, 20:20   #81
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Sometimes I sail, sometimes I motor, sometimes I motor-sail. My boat, my choice. I don't look down on the practice of others, figure they have their own reasons. My boat is a sailboat, not a motor sailor - which is a design designation (usually marked by some sort of pilot house). I follow COLREGS (when the motor is on I am under motor powered vessel rules) even though I must admit that I don't use the cone. When I was a kid (in the 50's) there was a lot of stink-pot and rag-sailor verbage. My Dad summed it up when he told me "Never laugh at another man's dream".
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Old 03-12-2013, 00:06   #82
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

i've had good sailboats and i've had bad sailboats and i cant count the number of times a reliable engine would have saved me a survival shitfight from which only luck has dictated that i'm still here. Every time i board my boat i bless its stinky little diesel heart.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:38   #83
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
what gets me is when I've sailing at 6 knots and see a sailboat motoring, and they don't intend to sail as the sail cover is still on
That might be me -- motoring all the way down the Solent at the crack of dawn in a perfectly good sailing wind, under the disdainful glare of hordes of sailors.

I don't care -- what they don't know is that unlike the disapproving daysailing masses, my crew, which I rousted out of bed before dawn, is below showering and having breakfast prior to our heading off on a 100 mile passage to Dartmouth or Guernsey. The motor is on for hot water, and an even keel, and to charge the batteries prior to a long sail. The sails will go up when everyone is awake, fed, bathed, etc. -- which usually happens just before we make the Needles.

I love to sail -- which is largely the point of this sport for some of us -- but I make no bones about putting the engine on if I feel like it for any reason whatsoever. My engine, in a soundproof engine room, is almost inaudible at a low cruising speed, so there's nothing unpleasant about motoring on my boat other than the fact that you're missing out on sailing.

My previous boat had such terrible upwind performance and such a wide tacking angle, that it made no sense to try to sail anywhere vaguely upwind, which forced me to motor a lot. With a much better sailing boat now and much more reliable wind in my new cruising grounds in the English Channel, I can usually now make meaningful progress even dead upwind, so I'm no longer forced to motor, but I will if I need to or feel like it.

Nor do I make judgements about others whom I might spy motoring in a perfectly good sailing wind -- there are many good reasons why they might be doing so.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:58   #84
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Once, we motored for 50 miles!
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:54   #85
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Glad to hear that most sail boaters realize when the motor is running they are a motor boat. However, many sail boaters do not! I don’t mind out in open water, but when going through a narrow channel/passage/marina its gets old and frustrating. Most motor boaters give away and avoid sail boats with good reason.

I was so pissed a couple time that I looked at installing sails on the Eagle to make it a motor sailor and even/level the water. All the 58 RW originally had forwards masts, so adding would not be that difficult, but EXPENSIVE. If we where planning on crossing an ocean, I would added sails as out range would be pushed to the max. I don't get why people think sailing is cheaper as the sails and rigging cost a lot of money. I can buy a lot of fuel for 20+ grand to out fit the Eagle. Sound like many of you are ready to go into the light and buy a motor boat.

Here is a picture of a sister 58 RW motor sailor. If you reduce the size to 100% its clearer.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Dorthy June pdf.pdf (233.3 KB, 63 views)
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:49   #86
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

I actually sail. I also actually motor. My boat has both sail and motor. Sometimes I use one, sometimes I use the other, sometimes I use both.

My first cruising boat had the motor give out on a cruise, so for the next two weeks, I sailed only.
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Old 05-12-2013, 16:05   #87
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

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> If the sails are up its a sailboat and has right of way.

Bzzzzzzt!
ColRegs Rule 3: General Definitions:

The term "power driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.

The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery , if fitted , is not being used.
yeah, thats right, nobody ever ignores colregs, especially not your massive freighters on autopilot with one sleepy guy keeping watch...you go by the rules dude, I'll stick to experience.
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Old 05-12-2013, 16:27   #88
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

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yeah, thats right, nobody ever ignores colregs, especially not your massive freighters on autopilot with one sleepy guy keeping watch...you go by the rules dude, I'll stick to experience.
I don't know why but sometimes those monsters give me the impression they think they own the seas and everyone else is flotsam.
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Old 05-12-2013, 16:29   #89
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

Best to keep thinking that way
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Old 05-12-2013, 17:36   #90
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Re: Sailing or Cheating/Motorsailing?

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Best to keep thinking that way
you said it, think, is the secret, an activity most seem to hardly ever do.
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