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Old 04-10-2012, 09:55   #91
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

No such thing as overkill when it comes to safety!! Do what makes ya fell warm and safe !! I always try to but even then ***** happens ! Glad ya are feeling a little better !! Hope we see ya when we get back to the PNW !!!
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:08   #92
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Well that went well. Got a nice rod in my arm and sore, but as mentioned a few times on this forum, I could be sleeping with the fishes...
I am looking at :
Shortening my boom
Placing the main sheet on top of a hard dodger
Incorporating two preventers- one on each midship cleat
Oh yeah and a gallows on top of the hard dodger too
Overkill?
This a small part in the design of my arch. I wanted to get the mainsheet traveller up out of the cockpit. More and more of the new designs are coming out with an arch built into the design. As well I could hang a dinghy, mount all my antenna's and extend out solar panels without the shading problems.



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Old 04-10-2012, 12:17   #93
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Well that went well. Got a nice rod in my arm and sore, but as mentioned a few times on this forum, I could be sleeping with the fishes...
I am looking at :
Shortening my boom
Placing the main sheet on top of a hard dodger
Incorporating two preventers- one on each midship cleat
Oh yeah and a gallows on top of the hard dodger too
Overkill?
Glad the operation went well and you are on the mend!

I thought my friend was using overkill using a preventer when accessing the foredeck, even when beating. His point was he could get knocked over the side regardless the point of sail.

I'm still not totally convienced "everytime", but at least I'll think about it before I leave the cockpit.
Shorten the boom? I don't think so, there wont be a need if you do the rest of the items on your list.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:41   #94
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Thank you my friends from down under and the East. It blows me away to know that I have friends all over the world. Hope to visit you some day.
Well, with a Valiant 40, "all over the world" is quite doable.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:47   #95
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post

Another is less well publicised: that's the way a boom generally lifts a little, a sort of tentative, almost hesitant jiggle, like a small child who doesn't yet realise they need to pee - when it's toying with the idea of throwing a gybe.
That's very observant and quite true. Past about 165 degrees, boat angle, helm and even a slightly clocking wind can force a gybe, and if you aren't anticipating it, it's not like you aren't getting a warning.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:54   #96
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Well that went well. Got a nice rod in my arm and sore, but as mentioned a few times on this forum, I could be sleeping with the fishes...
I am looking at :
Shortening my boom
Placing the main sheet on top of a hard dodger
Incorporating two preventers- one on each midship cleat
Oh yeah and a gallows on top of the hard dodger too
Overkill?
Yes. Run the two preventers, but to either the toe rail angled forward, or better, all the way forward to blocks at the bow and back...Loads of line, but the angles are much better.

The gallows is a nice idea and tidy.

Mainsheet to the hard dodger is fine if you run a Hunter, I suppose, but it's better to run it to the bridgedeck or someplace backed with loads of glass/backing plate/thrubolts. Also, you can haul UP on the sheet or DOWN if it's boom-end...whatever gives the better purchase.

Shorten the boom? No, but you could put a closed-cell cap on the end and lash it down with best-quality gaffer's tape. Keeps the nesting birds out (don't ask!).

This is less a "gear" issue and more a "technique" and "instruction" problem, I think.
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Old 04-10-2012, 13:31   #97
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

just add a helmet.....or duck...
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Old 04-10-2012, 13:39   #98
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
just add a helmet.....or duck...
Add a duck? Where would he put a duck? Maybe taped to the end of the boom so you can tell where the boom end is at all times by the quacking.
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Old 04-10-2012, 13:48   #99
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Jib only in such waters in the future.
On a fin keel boat, I am reluctant to use only a jib; that will result in an unbalanced boat. A deep reef in the main and storm jib is a more prudent way to go.

The jib only may work on a full keel boat.
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Old 04-10-2012, 14:11   #100
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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On a fin keel boat, I am reluctant to use only a jib; that will result in an unbalanced boat. A deep reef in the main and storm jib is a more prudent way to go.

The jib only may work on a full keel boat.
I think it depends on your point of sail. A boat needs to be balanced going upwind, but not downwind. If you're running, there's nothing wrong with having all your sail area up front. The only issue is that it can then be difficult to reduce sail because you can't blanket the genoa behind the main when rolling it up in heavy wind.
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Old 04-10-2012, 14:13   #101
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

Newt,

I wouldn't make any large changes to your boat. The problem was that an inexperienced helmsperson completely lost situational awareness and the skipper didn't notice soon enough. A change in the way the preventers are set up or used during reefing or flaking could have mitigated this, and you can certainly think about that as well, but I wouldn't rebuild your boat or change your sailplan.
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Old 04-10-2012, 14:38   #102
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
I think it depends on your point of sail. A boat needs to be balanced going upwind, but not downwind. If you're running, there's nothing wrong with having all your sail area up front. The only issue is that it can then be difficult to reduce sail because you can't blanket the genoa behind the main when rolling it up in heavy wind.
I agree that furling is difficult without a main.

I also do not like being DDW with a fin keel because of the tendency to wallow. I do teach my student how to run wing-on-wing because there are times that it is necessary. Broad reaching and gybing is safer and faster; especially in large seas.
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Old 04-10-2012, 16:27   #103
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

we sailed all over the gulf of mexico in a fin/spade sloop using only jib. was a seidelmann 37. was a lot less off balance than knockdowns in severe t-boomers. also a whole lot less weather helm...much less fighting the boat.
that weather is more easily addressed when rig is split and not much sail is flying
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Old 04-10-2012, 17:50   #104
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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This thread reminds me of an incident that occurred about ten years ago in Long Island Sound. I was lying in my bunk one night when I heard a MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY on the VHF. Seems one of the boats in the Stamford to Block Island Race that early June evening had someone go over the side. As I recall a jib pole got stuck and the fellow (a very experienced racer) went forward to help with it. The pole broke and hit him in the chest throwing him over the side. He had a flotation jacket on and another crew member jumped in and tried to hold onto his unconscious body but, could not. What struck me was even though the boat was fully crewed and a man overboard pole was dropped and the boat immediately went back for a rescue joined by several Police and Coast Guard helicopters and boats. They were never able to find him. Granted it was night time. It still brought home to me that you don't need to be out in blue water for something fatal to occur and even with rescue resources rapidly on the scene things break bad fast. His body turned up several weeks later.
'

How much is one's life worth -- worth the cost of a strobe light on that jacket?
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Old 04-10-2012, 17:52   #105
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Well that went well. Got a nice rod in my arm and sore, but as mentioned a few times on this forum, I could be sleeping with the fishes...
I am looking at :
Shortening my boom
Placing the main sheet on top of a hard dodger
Incorporating two preventers- one on each midship cleat
Oh yeah and a gallows on top of the hard dodger too
Overkill?

I think the idea of a backup preventer is really smart. We don't think double-lining is overkill when a named storm is coming through ...
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