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Old 12-10-2012, 02:57   #331
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
Why is the staysail sheeted in?
i think dockhead described it pretty well!

what i might add is if sailing very deep the staysail "boxes" the wind,that is . lift from the mainsail,consequently creating more lift from a sail that is essentially shadowed by the main.

more on the wind and flying the genoa by the lee,as the main is pulled in to force the boat to sail higher,(to counteract the genoa pulling the head downwind),the sheeted in staysail,now will provide a lot of extra drive,with minimal helm needed to keep on course.

on the last 2 downwind circumnavigations,we have either steered by hand or wind vane,so a balanced helm,is an important aspect of holding a steady course,with minimum oversteer.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:06   #332
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
for cutter rigged yachts this is a great working rig,and very easy to balance the boat,it really comes into its own realm in stronger winds.

having the poled out genoa to windward,the staysail sheeted in,and the main nearly touching the shrouds.

as winds strenthen progressively,reduce the main first,then genoa a few rolls at a time.

untill you reach a point where you drop the main completly,and the genoa is about the same size as the stay sail.

further reefing is achived by completly rolling the genoa and running on staysail alone,this can also be released,so as to spill wind,untill it is time for bare poles,or even smatter storm jib hanked on to the staysail stay.

steering balance is achieved by pulling in the main or letting out the pole or vice versa.
Thank you atoll and dock head. This is info I can take to the bank! The progression in taking down the sails and balancing the rig is very useful to a newb blue water sailor like me. :-)
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:52   #333
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
While I agree wholeheartedly with your point about big genoas, I think you might be missing the mark about VMG. On a slow boat--the type of boat sometimes lovingly referred to as a 4KSB--there is little point to heating up by pointing higher than DDW. (...) Some boats, especially the first generations of ULDB racers, are designed to go DDW, achieving their best VMGs with a conventional spinnaker squared back and the main all the way out on the other side. Others, including most fin-keel cruisers, are going to perform better with an A-chute on a deep broad reach around 155 degrees more or less, depending on conditions.(...)
Yes.

Little potential and benefit in an older type of hull/rig in the cruising mode, much more potential in flat ass/asymetrical kite modern light boat! This fact is even further examplified in modern multihulls.

Frank Cammas, who drove the winning VOR 2012 monohull boat, talks about this in one of the documentals on YouTube. I was sometimes looking at how Groupama did things and was not quite sure what was going on. Franck explains his much wider sailing angles are a transfer from his multihull experience. He also talks about the potential benefits/losses in the racing aspect.

b.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:09   #334
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Thank you atoll and dock head. This is info I can take to the bank! The progression in taking down the sails and balancing the rig is very useful to a newb blue water sailor like me. :-)
no worries,though i cant empasise enough the benefits of leaving the pole set on downwind passages,using an uphaul,and fore and aft guys.

having a second pole and twin forestays or twin roller furling genoas makes for very easy down wind sailing if you are short handed as well
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Old 13-10-2012, 16:22   #335
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by Bay Man View Post
Ouch! Sorry to hear this

So what does everyone use as a preventer?
You can use your boat's (if so equipped) boom vang; connect it from the shackle at the mast to a strong point on either port or starboard side (possibly near the shrouds), depending which side the boom is on.

Just remember to reset the (former) preventer when you set the boom vang back into place at the mast, or an auto jibe, even in light air, can take one's breath away.
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Old 13-10-2012, 16:33   #336
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by sailingmark View Post
You can use your boat's (if so equipped) boom vang; connect it from the shackle at the mast to a strong point on either port or starboard side (possibly near the shrouds), depending which side the boom is on.

Just remember to reset the (former) preventer when you set the boom vang back into place at the mast, or an auto jibe, even in light air, can take one's breath away.
Use a proper preventer rigged to the foredeck, or use a boom brake. A vang to the toe rail is not wise.
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Old 13-10-2012, 17:34   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale

Use a proper preventer rigged to the foredeck, or use a boom brake. A vang to the toe rail is not wise.
Good point. It can create huge single point loading on a boom and creates a good opportunity to snap it in heavy weather if the boom moves and is jerked to a stop by this setup.
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Old 13-10-2012, 17:38   #338
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Good point. It can create huge single point loading on a boom and creates a good opportunity to snap it in heavy weather if the boom moves and is jerked to a stop by this setup.
When I am running offshore I often rig a preventer that goes from the boom forward and down, and is set up really tight with a block and tackle. This is in addition to the regular boom vang from the boom to the base of the mast. Both are kept tight and snugged down and the boom doesn't move in a jibe--just the main flops over.
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Old 13-10-2012, 19:35   #339
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
+1

I would even omit the word "generally".

If you can make hull speed DDW, then it is likely, with many boats which are not heavy displacement long-keelers, that you can even exceed it. Then there is obviously no point to gybing towards your destination.

I love sailing like that -- at hull speed or above DDW, or 5 degrees off for a little extra stability, when the wind is strong enough. A wonderful ride.
I used the word generally for the exceptions that prove the rule.

e.g. Moving laterally off the rhumb line puts you on a more favorable current or avoids an upcoming obstacle that would adversely affect the wind (say headlands or something)
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Old 13-10-2012, 20:14   #340
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
I used the word generally for the exceptions that prove the rule.

e.g. Moving laterally off the rhumb line puts you on a more favorable current or avoids an upcoming obstacle that would adversely affect the wind (say headlands or something)

It really screws up your day when you hit those headlands! But you're right, if you're destination sailing (or racing) current will be a part of deciding what point to sail on.
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Old 13-10-2012, 20:48   #341
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

That's why I like getting over 20nm off shore in the Pacific. I worry a lot less about hitting things.
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Old 13-10-2012, 21:01   #342
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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That's why I like getting over 20nm off shore in the Pacific. I worry a lot less about hitting things.
Except for floating tsunami debris! I personally worry more about hitting that unseen object at night than I do about hitting land. I can do something about missing land, but not much about the log floating just at the surface. Hit a 100-lb. propane tank offshore once, and just dodged a floating freezer chest about 8 feet long on the same trip headed north from the Bahamas back to North Carolina. Lots of floating crap out there.
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Old 13-10-2012, 21:02   #343
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
That's why I like getting over 20nm off shore in the Pacific. I worry a lot less about hitting things.

Never sailed in the PNW, but I've seen the waves crashing along the coasts, and ... wowsa.

How are you coming along?
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Old 13-10-2012, 21:04   #344
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Except for floating tsunami debris! I personally worry more about hitting that unseen object at night than I do about hitting land. I can do something about missing land, but not much about the log floating just at the surface. Hit a 100-lb. propane tank offshore once, and just dodged a floating freezer chest about 8 feet long on the same trip headed north from the Bahamas back to North Carolina. Lots of floating crap out there.

That debris is going to be a serious issue. Do they have a plan for dealing with it? The freezer, nothing much you can do but pay attention, but they know all that debris is coming. Doesn't mean they have a solution or even that there is one.
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Old 13-10-2012, 21:08   #345
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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It really screws up your day when you hit those headlands! But you're right, if you're destination sailing (or racing) current will be a part of deciding what point to sail on.
Ha, ha - Good one RF...

However I was referring to the "effect" the headlands would have on the wind.

I'd leave it up to my GPS to direct me into the headlands...
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