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Old 08-10-2012, 19:03   #226
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Well, my friend's boat is a racing boat, not a racer/cruiser, but when I looked under the boat, it looked like a good sized rudder (but what do I know about that? Not much.) Neither boat yaws excessively IMO, but his is very steady -- steadier than mine, bow to stern. She's just a lovely boat to sail.
A lot of that has to do with when a boat was built. The old IOR rule penalized stability, since stability translates into speed. Consequently, many racers and racer/cruisers built in that era were designed as "broach coaches," with undersize rudders that made them far more difficult to sail than they should have been. I used to trim the mainsheet for a boat from that era, and I often had more control over the boat's course than the guy at the helm.

Racers often speak of the rudder as the "brake." The reason you'll sometimes see smaller rudders on racers is that the boats are faster without all that drag. A good crew on such a boat knows to control its weather helm by balancing the sails, not by applying more rudder.

Most cruisers will gladly sacrifice a bit of speed for greater control. In essence, the same impulse that keeps me from rigging a genoa induces me to purchase a boat with a large rudder. The other option would be to go with a full keel.

Unfortunately, we could argue about that all day.
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Old 08-10-2012, 19:09   #227
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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I being prepared for a storm -- pardon me, a thunderstorm.
And is it just me or have there been a heck of a lot of them this summer.
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Old 08-10-2012, 19:35   #228
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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I think that the "lead" (distance between front edge of keel stub and mast) has much more to do with this than the weight or even righting moment of the keel. Also the fore and aft positioning of both keel and mast, as well as whether the rudder is spade or skeg hung and how big the skeg may or may not be.

Well, I don't know exactly what he did, but it's a Lee Creekmore design and it just sails like a dream. The rudder is skeg hung. The boom is 17' long. It has a bowsprit and a boomkin and carries a lot of sail for its size and I can hardly wait to take it through the Keys.
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Old 08-10-2012, 19:39   #229
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
A lot of that has to do with when a boat was built. The old IOR rule penalized stability, since stability translates into speed. Consequently, many racers and racer/cruisers built in that era were designed as "broach coaches," with undersize rudders that made them far more difficult to sail than they should have been. I used to trim the mainsheet for a boat from that era, and I often had more control over the boat's course than the guy at the helm.

Racers often speak of the rudder as the "brake." The reason you'll sometimes see smaller rudders on racers is that the boats are faster without all that drag. A good crew on such a boat knows to control its weather helm by balancing the sails, not by applying more rudder.

Most cruisers will gladly sacrifice a bit of speed for greater control. In essence, the same impulse that keeps me from rigging a genoa induces me to purchase a boat with a large rudder. The other option would be to go with a full keel.

Unfortunately, we could argue about that all day.

Very clearly this boat is balanced by its sails. It has a plumb bow.

It was our first sail on her, so we were conservative and cautious. She could have taken a bigger genny (I know, stay calm there!). In addition the battens (half battens) weren't in the sail, but we still got her up to six knots in light wind.
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Old 08-10-2012, 21:29   #230
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

What a sad ending to a great thread.

I hope you are healing well newt.
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Old 08-10-2012, 22:28   #231
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

I am DF. Thanks for asking.
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Old 08-10-2012, 22:32   #232
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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I am DF. Thanks for asking.


Newt, hoping for your sake that there is never a next time, but if there is you can always put the word out instead of hiring a skipper to take your boat home. I'm sure some people you can trust would have been happy to take care of it for you, like CharlieCobra and the rest of us forum members in the area. Or did your insurance cover that?
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:23   #233
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

In situations like this I am happy to fund some sailor for helping me out. I am finding that not all paid sailors have the same integrity. Does anyone know of a place on the web were we can vette professional sailors?
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:58   #234
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

Newt--

I suspect following your surgery you were referred to a physical therapist for post-op recovery as was I. In my case I was given a series of exercises that involved using a latex band that I variously had to put under one foot and pull up on as in doing curls or place over the top of a door and pull down on, as if one were trying to do a chin-up. I had to do my "routine" 3 times a day (although I actually did it somewhat more). At the start of my therapy I was told my recovery would take 8-9 months and I could expect about 70% recovery. I followed the instructions religiously and was "discharged" from therapy after only 4 months. "What's this?" I asked. "Well" the therapist answered, "you've achieved all our goals so your insurance will not cover any further therapy. But tell me, what have you been doing?" When I explained that I had done exactly as she instructed plus a bit more whenever possible, she said "Ah, that explains it." "What?" I said. "Well" she answered, "we estimate recovery time based on the assumption that a patient will not follow our instructions and will really only exercise during therapy sessions!"

I now have about 80% which is quite a bit more than I was told I could expect (although I still have numbness and weakness in my grip from time to time), largely because I followed the "Dr.'s orders" to the letter and a bit more. Do so and your results will be the same or better. (Note, however, that the ache never, ever goes away. You'll get so used to it eventually you'll not notice it, except when folks bring up the subject, as now.) And, avoid the pain pills at all costs. Too many folks I know have become dependent on the pills even after they've recovered. A little discomfort for a short while now--unless it prevents you from sleeping, and then take only 1/2 of a pill--is far better than developing a dependency.

Good luck!

svHyLyte.

PS: The next time you have to run dead down wind, try hard sheeting the main amid-ships and letting the Jenny do the hauling. The main stabilizes the yacht againt roll and doesn't interfere with the Genoa's wind. Try it. You'll be surprized. We have blown by a whole lott'a yachts wallowing along wing'n wing while we've been stable and comfortable.
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:56   #235
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+1 and start the therapy right away as soon as allowed to. Things bind up wing and get weak very quickly!
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:16   #236
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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In situations like this I am happy to fund some sailor for helping me out. I am finding that not all paid sailors have the same integrity. Does anyone know of a place on the web were we can vette professional sailors?

I guess ya missed my PM a couple days ago....
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:47   #237
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Living with the Weather covers the whole of the BC coast and Puget Sound.

The Wind Came From All Ways covers Georgia Strait.
Only one I know is wind came all ways. Amazing book for Juan De fuca up to Johnstone straight
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:59   #238
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Only one I know is wind came all ways. Amazing book for Juan De fuca up to Johnstone straight
Another book well worth having on your boat shelf is Marine Weather hazards Manual: A guide to local forecasts and conditions (West Coast). Owen Lange was a part of the second revision of that book.

Environment Canada has a CD, Coastal Weather for British Columbia Mariners.
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:19   #239
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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And is it just me or have there been a heck of a lot of them this summer.

Where I live at the moment seems to be a micro-climate, under a sort of weather umbrella, with storms repeatedly moving around us. I have no idea why; there's certainly no high ground to protect us! Soon I'll be moving to the Bradenton area, and if local radar is any indication the umbrella doesn't extend that far.

But where my friend's boat is, in Miami, they're still getting a lot of rain, nearly every day. I grew up in Fort Lauderdale, and I know that's a summertime pattern, but we're in a summertime pattern here too. We've got to move the boat and are hoping the weather settles down soon!
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:56   #240
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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I guess ya missed my PM a couple days ago....
No I caught it Charles, I am all done for this trip and just planning for the future. Are you still tied to one boatyard or are you willing to come down and work at a DIY shop in Astoria?
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