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Old 06-10-2012, 13:17   #166
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by KnuckleDragger View Post
58 MPH=50.4 knots. Got your conversion backwards...
Indeed. And key is also over what period of time. 50 or even 60 knots of wind for 30 minutes Or an hour is a squall. It does not produce a dangerous sea state and is not actually a big deal if you get your sail down in time.

A "storm", as sailors use the word, builds up over days, collecting energy, then releases that energy for days, producing a high, dangerous sea state. Land people (and bay sailors) don't know anything about it.

Katabatic winds are something different - they are like avalanches of air. You can predict them if you have the data and know what causes them, but otherwise they do seem to come from nowhere. I have been beaten up by them at various times in the Aegean and Adriatic, and I fear and respect them.
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Old 06-10-2012, 21:46   #167
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

The delivery captain got my boat back to it's slip today, so there is some partial closure to this event . I can't help but marvel that we don't have more accidents, since we play at the junction of two of the largest fluids in our world, the ocean and the air.
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Old 06-10-2012, 23:03   #168
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

Newt

Sorry about the terminology fistfights breaking out on your thread, they (we) really should be shifting to a new topic if they persist. Good to know your boat's home, and hope your recovery proceeds as swiftly as humanely possible.
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Old 06-10-2012, 23:14   #169
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

Thanks Andrew, in fact thank you all of the well wishes I have received. you have made recovery much more interesting. Anybody for a game of cards down in the galley this Saturday night?
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Old 06-10-2012, 23:50   #170
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they stay in the same area, barely moving, for hours. Sometimes they move quite fast.

They can be devastating on land as well. Was it on the news tonight? 40% chance of rain, but no way to forecast where. Unfortunately, it was over I-75 in Sarasota, a blinding rainstorm that resulted in a 46-car pile up with 52 people sent to the hospital, at least one person killed. That person was actually a pedestrian. I don't know all the details.
I'm not aware under what possible circumstances the Tampa Bay area could experience a katabatic wind.
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Old 07-10-2012, 00:07   #171
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

Let's not forget the downburst in this tale of horrific and sudden winds. Especially the dreaded and highly rare macrodownburst, or the even more dreaded and rare Derecho...


Downburst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Derecho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:43   #172
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

If i recall my meteorology courses from my yachtmaster time, katabtic winds are generated where high mountains fall steeply down to sea, eamples alps, the agean parts of norway.

I haven't been in tampa for a few years, has the army corps of engineers built a couple of mountains there?

has alpine climbing becaome a serious local sport?

Just asking raku - maybe you could post a pic or two of the mountains in tampa.

Course, i could be wrong"........
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:04   #173
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

I don't believe I had ever heard the name "Derecho" before and yet one traveled over half the width of North America causing widespread destruction. Amazing storm.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:43   #174
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

If a wind has a name, it usually deserves respect--Bora, Meltimi, Chubasco, Levanter, etc. Maybe the PNW needs a "Newt".
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:01   #175
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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If a wind has a name, it usually deserves respect--Bora, Meltimi, Chubasco, Levanter, etc. Maybe the PNW needs a "Newt".

All regional names for winds dictated by local effects. Derecho is an old word for a particular rare meteorological effect, the term is Spanish. A Tornado is a swirling wind, a Derecho is a straight line wind in Spanish. The formation of a Derecho, often more than 250 miles wide by definition, has much to do with downburst clusters. It can be a huge and catastrophic wind event, which would in some cases be quite difficult for a sailor to avoid due to the sheer size and speed of the weather formation. What would you do if you saw this coming at you?


Facts About Derechos - Very Damaging Windstorms

Just thought as long as we were scaring each other with tales of dangerous weather effects, I'd throw that in the mix. Look at the video of the Pakwash Derecho under photos and videos in the link I posted, the ground and air footage is absolutely terrifying...
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:32   #176
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

impressive pix .. if i saw one coming at me---holy sheets, mon---anchor and pray--douse everything and make boat s small as possible.
what is speed of winds in those??

tampa bay is inellegible for katabatic winds. they DO have severe tboomers with up to 70some knots--measured and stated by noaa.......sometimes these stay around for a few hours.

whatever wind newt found should well bear his name....
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:44   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret

All regional names for winds dictated by local effects. Derecho is an old word for a particular rare meteorological effect, the term is Spanish. A Tornado is a swirling wind, a Derecho is a straight line wind in Spanish. The formation of a Derecho, often more than 250 miles wide by definition, has much to do with downburst clusters. It can be a huge and catastrophic wind event, which would in some cases be quite difficult for a sailor to avoid due to the sheer size and speed of the weather formation. What would you do if you saw this coming at you?

Facts About Derechos - Very Damaging Windstorms

Just thought as long as we were scaring each other with tales of dangerous weather effects, I'd throw that in the mix. Look at the video of the Pakwash Derecho under photos and videos in the link I posted, the ground and air footage is absolutely terrifying...
Those all look to me like Super Cells which is a concetrated form of a line squall. Deadly, but basically the same phenomena on a larger scale.

They are known to also have serious microburst potential due to the drastic temperature differentiations amd can create winds that "fall" out of the sky vertically and hit the water like the wash from a propellor and then zooming out horzontally at apeed.

Wasnt there a famous lake sailing race that had a microbirst hit the lake? There were casualties as well i recall...

Supercells are ugly but thankfully for florida they are very rare there i think?
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:50   #178
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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Those all look to me like Super Cells which is a concetrated form of a line squall. Deadly, but basically the same phenomena on a larger scale.

They are known to also have serious microburst potential due to the drastic temperature differentiations amd can create winds that "fall" out of the sky vertically and hit the water like the wash from a propellor and then zooming out horzontally at apeed.

Wasnt there a famous lake sailing race that had a microbirst hit the lake? There were casualties as well i recall...

Supercells are ugly but thankfully for florida they are very rare there i think?
Derechos are convective systems so thank God don't occur at sea. We get hurricanes instead
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:57   #179
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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If a wind has a name, it usually deserves respect--Bora, Meltimi, Chubasco, Levanter, etc. Maybe the PNW needs a "Newt".
That made me laugh so hard my arm hurt :-) I will probably go get redosed with pain meds because of you!:-)
My wind was predictable because(from the charts anyway) we had just come around a cliff and all that cold air from the Olympic mountains just avalanched on us. l can see that now. Couldn't see anything but fog then.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:59   #180
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Re: sailboats can injure and kill

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That made me laugh so hard my arm hurt :-) I will probably go get redosed with pain meds because of you!:-)
My wind was predictable because(from the charts anyway) we had just come around a cliff and all that cold air from the Olympic mountains just avalanched on us. l can see that now. Couldn't see anything but fog then.
Hope you're feeling better, Newt!
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