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Old 01-09-2010, 23:05   #16
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I find it best to avoid large gatherings of amateurs.
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Old 01-09-2010, 23:25   #17
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What's really fun is Fleet Week on the SF Bay. On Saturday after about seven Navy ships came in, the Blue Angles would perform over-head. The Coasties cleared a lane in the middle of all the boats, and the waters to deep to anchor so everyone mills around. I'd be so busy dodging other boats that a guest on my boat would give me a heads-up so I could watch a fly-by as some passes were directly overhead at less than 300 feet..
We were lucky if the wind was only blowing 5 to 10.
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Old 02-09-2010, 00:12   #18
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Thanks David I was avoiding large amateurs and crowds. I think Im done griping about all the fun I had a few months ago.
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:26   #19
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Recently I had an urgent question to the Forum -- I was supposed to be embarking on a Channel crossing and had a hopeless jammed in-mast furling mainsail. I needed information and posted here. Nine out of ten posts were of the nature of "you shouldn't have had the in-mast furler in the first place; see what you get". Decidedly unhelpful. One post -- from Bash -- thanks again! -- had exactly the information I needed, which led to solving the problem and successfully crossing.

So I'm NOT going to write "you shouldn't have been rafting up with a bunch of drunken idiots in the first place".

Also I'm going to express a somewhat different opinion on the role of the harbor authorities and coast guard. After sailing in a number of places in the world I have started to realize that back home in the U.S. we have decidedly unhelpful authorities. It is not true that they simply have to stand back and watch us sink/flounder around with fouled props/etc. because otherwise they would be overwhelmed. In the UK, the Coast Guard routinely pulls grounded boats off shoals, coordinates tows, and helps people with fouled props. They are incredibly friendly and always helpful, no matter what kind of stupidity it was that got you in the situation in the first place. They don't seem to be overwhelmed with it, although the density of boaters on the UK south coast is much higher than any place in the US I've ever been. Like someone else said, I always do my best to avoid getting myself into a situation where I need someone else's help, but something is always happening on the water and someone always needs some kind of help. We help each other, so why shouldn't the harbormasters help too? I think the OP is completely right in being disappointed at the response.

I hate to say it, but to me that seems typical of our Coast Guard (harbor authorities, etc.) to harrass a boater in trouble who has let out a little too much anchor chain, rather than help somehow with the problem, which incidentally he did not even create.
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:08   #20
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Recently I had an urgent question to the Forum -- I was supposed to be embarking on a Channel crossing and had a hopeless jammed in-mast furling mainsail. I needed information and posted here. Nine out of ten posts were of the nature of "you shouldn't have had the in-mast furler in the first place; see what you get". Decidedly unhelpful. One post -- from Bash -- thanks again! -- had exactly the information I needed, which led to solving the problem and successfully crossing.

So I'm NOT going to write "you shouldn't have been rafting up with a bunch of drunken idiots in the first place".
Before you got the one helpful answer you also got 9 bumps to your thread. On Forums a few bumps on a thread can help along the way to an answer - even if not of any instrinsic use. like this post

In respect of OP, I don't see anything unnatural in looking / deffering to the authority figure - even if only for guidance rather than protection as informs your own decisions. One of the problems with being law abiding folks, especially on home turf is that actions do have consequences that one would prefer to avoid..........so do need to consider / defer to officialdom when coming accross it, even if only to see that they are not interested before taking your own action.
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Old 02-09-2010, 07:01   #21
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I suspect, (though if I'm wrong someone will no doubt tell me ) that harbor masters in the US don't have quite as wide ranging powers as they do in the UK.

Here (UK) the harbor master is god and you'd better do exactly as he requires otherwise you end up leaving or in court with a legal hold on your boat until the matter is settled.
Harbours, Docks and Piers Clauses Act 1847 (c.27) - Statute Law Database

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Old 02-09-2010, 08:02   #22
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... So I'm NOT going to write "you shouldn't have been rafting up with a bunch of drunken idiots in the first place"...
I hope you can appreciate the ironic humour, intentional or not.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:05   #23
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I find it best to avoid large gatherings of amateurs.
Yes. Professionals (even professional idiots) are mostly predictable. Amateurs will always seek out new ways to assault you.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:23   #24
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Your right sabray. "I'm from the government and I'm here to......." makes me run like heck. Yep we have to help each other along the way. I still remember my lesson about tying the anchor rode to the boat BEFORE you heave the plow over the bow....
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:33   #25
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I find it best to avoid large gatherings of amateurs.
Good advice but unfortunately that leaves you with only sailing a kayak in your backyard pool. Amateurs and idiots are rampant all over the planet's oceans, bays, and anywhere there is enough water to float more than one boat.
- - I think the OP was trying to convey, he was ready for the idiots and had in mind and equipment many ways to extricate his boat and himself from the situation if it got personally threatening. He was simply amazed as I was many years ago by the indifference and "don't get involved" attitude of supposedly "authorities" unless they could issue a ticket and collect a fine. Just my opinion.
- - In a few countries, if they have facilities, there are helpful authority folks who are out to assist you rather than arrest you. But I feel the trend is definitely downhill. Why? Maybe because the idiots and inconsiderate's are rapidly becoming the majority rather than just a small minority. All of this, I feel, merely points to us having to exercise more planning and forethought about preparing for the eventual encounters with idiots be it in Boston or the Bahamas or anywhere else on this water world.
- - I was always under the illusion we could sail away from the idiots but it seems they are following behind as fast as they can buy boats.
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Old 02-09-2010, 09:32   #26
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better yet use all chain. the 2 that got snagged had rope. I had an fx 37 ready as back up and 65' cqr in the ready. So many options were available. I like the fx becasuse its light and can be carried out to help another boat or set to help my boat.
I thought of that, but unless I modify my "Chain locker" significantly, my little 28 won't hold much chain...likely I will bend on a longer chain rode at the anchor and keep with the composite..will still probably use a sentinal though, have had luck with them before...in a few years, if we wind up on a larger blue water boat, you can bet I will have an all chain rode..and a windlass..

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Try anchoring a quarter mile from the crowd and forget the front-row seat.
THIS! Trouble is, Idiots tend to want to "cuddle."

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I find it best to avoid large gatherings of amateurs.
Good luck...you;d never go anywhere in the south chessie...it's still better than driving a car almost anywhere...

Sorry for the part hijack..this is a good thread..
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:39   #27
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always anchor upwind of the amateurs. then they wont drag into you.
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Old 02-09-2010, 13:02   #28
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always anchor upwind of the amateurs. then they wont drag into you.
The problem is....amateurs often don't know they are amateurs and assume that you're one, so they try to anchor upwind of you!

Let the game of leapfrog begin.
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Old 02-09-2010, 13:02   #29
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Having anchored in those situations, I enjoy 4th of July at a harbor. It is usually a parking lot filled with people that boat at best once per year or this is their first day. At one time Law Enforcement was more helpfull, but I agree it is more of a Us vs Them mentality and they are less likely to help unless a fine is involved. I can see the harbormaster not wanting to get entangled in this situation in case something "worse" happened somewhere else. People running over another boats anchor line happens alot, I've had it almost happen to me several times even though I leave a bright orange bouy over the anchor, and use a short rode, and stand on the bow waving a spotlight and yelling. Somehow nobody wants to go around behind only in front of an anchored boat. And amatuers only can operate a boat at full throttle. I dont have an easy answer just watch out and be carefull.
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Old 03-09-2010, 14:56   #30
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I do similar to what you did.

I check the tide charts, head out early, get a spot in shallow water. I look for places where it looks dark and un-inviting. Maybe no one else will try coming back that far. But, mainly so everyone will be headed away from me when it's over.

So, being early, I grill out and have a nice relaxing 3-4 hours.

After it's over, we hang around for another hour or two while the stampede dies down. But I actually wait so long that the water is almost deserted by the time I leave. Then no-wake speed the 5 miles back. So, if there IS a moran left over drifting drunk, I don't run them over.

So, all in all, I take a 30 minute fireworks show and turn it into a 10 hour outing.

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