Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-07-2009, 12:48   #61
Senior Cruiser
 
Ocean Girl's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In transit ( Texas to wherever the wind blows us)
Boat: Pacific Seacraft a Crealock 34
Posts: 4,115
Images: 2
ID,
Go for it! The cruising community really needs a tool like that.
OG
__________________

__________________
Ocean Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2009, 14:48   #62
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fort Pierce, FL. Texas Roots
Boat: 82 Present, 13 ft dinghy
Posts: 492
Wow, the stories you guys tell, seems there is a lot more to offshore than just crawling aboard.

The closest thing I have witnessed was a first class petty officer that had never gone to sea, been either in school or shore duty maintaining shoreside radar for about 8 years.

We were heading WESTPAC and he reported aboard, we left the next day on a destroyer. When the lines were singled up he blew lunch. Before we cleared San Diego Harbor he had collapsed on the hangar deck. Us on the deck force, (read boatswain mates) formed up in platoon formation. Some hard hearted, it was rumored, kindda kicked him aside to make room. He laid there all the way to Pearl, 12-14 days. Discharged in pearl

There is no, and I mean no sympathy at sea. You puked, you cleaned it up. Show weakness of anykind your shipmates would be all over you. God, I did love it, but not for a career.

As for psyco's, we enlisted felt most of them ate in the wardroom, and we called them sir, often with aye in front of the sir.

Erika, for the growler, needed is one cattle prod and the ankle biter's hand cuffs...oh that's right the ankle nibbler was on a different trip.
__________________

__________________
Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2009, 15:00   #63
Senior Cruiser
 
maxingout's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Pierce, Phoenix
Boat: Privilege 39 Catamaran, Exit Only
Posts: 2,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mule View Post
Wow, the stories you guys tell, seems there is a lot more to offshore than just crawling aboard.

The closest thing I have witnessed was a first class petty officer that had never gone to sea, been either in school or shore duty maintaining shoreside radar for about 8 years.

We were heading WESTPAC and he reported aboard, we left the next day on a destroyer. When the lines were singled up he blew lunch. Before we cleared San Diego Harbor he had collapsed on the hangar deck. Us on the deck force, (read boatswain mates) formed up in platoon formation. Some hard hearted, it was rumored, kindda kicked him aside to make room. He laid there all the way to Pearl, 12-14 days. Discharged in pearl

There is no, and I mean no sympathy at sea. You puked, you cleaned it up. Show weakness of anykind your shipmates would be all over you. God, I did love it, but not for a career.

As for psyco's, we enlisted felt most of them ate in the wardroom, and we called them sir, often with aye in front of the sir.

Erika, for the growler, needed is one cattle prod and the ankle biter's hand cuffs...oh that's right the ankle nibbler was on a different trip.
I was in the Navy for 5 years. I had one day of sea duty on board the Eisenhower aircraft carrier. That day went well. I was obviously cut out for the sea. It's no wonder I sailed around the world on my own boat.
__________________
Dave -Sailing Vessel Exit Only

http://SailingUNI.com
http://maxingout.com
http://PositiveThinkingSailor.com
maxingout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2009, 17:29   #64
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
ID,
As you have no doubt observed, a vessel crew is a microcosm of the diverse personalities in the world, thrown more or less at random together into a compressed space with varying levels of danger depending on the voyage. It would serve as a working model of the chaos theory. Like many of the posters here, I rely on my instincts and look for obvious red flags, before I ever let someone get on the boat. A shake down run is in order, to see how they respond. There will be a lot of talks about what to do in the case of an emergency, and I am not above putting a crew candidate under some mild stress to see how they deal with it; if I have a question in my mind about their stability. The whole time we are together, I am evaluating how the particular individual is responding. Most people in the case of being on a small vessel together cannot sustain a false front for very long. When the actions start diverging from the words coming out of their mouths, is when you get down to the meat of it. After that you have to decide if they are worth the risk or not. I would rather sail short handed, than with someone who is not stable enough to make the trip. The last crossing I made with another person was only 700 miles and the individual with me was seasick for the whole trip, which put me on the wheel for 3 days straight, but he was of a good temperament and he was a tryer, and I have a lot respect for someone who keeps going, even when they feel that bad.
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2009, 19:24   #65
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tortola
Posts: 700
Images: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to bvimatelot Send a message via Skype™ to bvimatelot
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
ID,
As you have no doubt observed, a vessel crew is a microcosm of the diverse personalities in the world, thrown more or less at random together into a compressed space with varying levels of danger depending on the voyage. It would serve as a working model of the chaos theory. Like many of the posters here, I rely on my instincts and look for obvious red flags, before I ever let someone get on the boat. A shake down run is in order, to see how they respond. There will be a lot of talks about what to do in the case of an emergency, and I am not above putting a crew candidate under some mild stress to see how they deal with it; if I have a question in my mind about their stability. The whole time we are together, I am evaluating how the particular individual is responding. Most people in the case of being on a small vessel together cannot sustain a false front for very long. When the actions start diverging from the words coming out of their mouths, is when you get down to the meat of it. After that you have to decide if they are worth the risk or not. I would rather sail short handed, than with someone who is not stable enough to make the trip. The last crossing I made with another person was only 700 miles and the individual with me was seasick for the whole trip, which put me on the wheel for 3 days straight, but he was of a good temperament and he was a tryer, and I have a lot respect for someone who keeps going, even when they feel that bad.
Tend to agree with you there - but I also try not to "over-analyse" it. I have a bucket on board with a big yellow smiley face at the bottom and the logo "You are'nt going to die". Crew who use it and get on, to the best of their abilities, with managing their watch, earn my respect. Those who wimp out dont get asked out again.
__________________
bvimatelot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 00:07   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: wpb florida
Boat: piver 43 trimaran
Posts: 11
the otheside of the coin...continued

Based on the responses, to my previous reply, i am not sure if i am seen as the psycho or the victim.
I also have a large boat. Last year i took a young crew member from S Jesey to S Florida. It was my wife, the young lad and myself. In the beginning we were concerned about this guy being so skinny and sleeping so much. I phoned my sister, a doctor and she came with all kinds of hypothesis.. put him on the first bus, get rid of him now!, ofcorse we did not do that, we just tried to fatten the boy...
In Georgetown we decided to make an outside jump to Fernandina and bypass S Carolina and Georgia ICW. My wife would not want to be on the outside, so she took a bus home. The next day, the crew and me alone were in the ocean. The way out, was a hard 10 miles beat till the #1 marker and then we changed course south and on a broad reach, we had near gale conditions but the ride became much more comfortable. But both this guy and me were seasick. I am used to it and just threw up and kept on going, this poor guy was having a very hard time. We were out all night. I called him a couple of times to hold the wheel a couple of minutes while i did something with the sails, (I did not have an autopilot) but send him to his bunk right away.
It was a hard night. About one hour before sun up, he came out begging me to head back inside, anything but this seas, please. I told him i would re-evaluate the situation and he went back to his bunk. Two hours later he came out, very-very angry, called me a couple of names and told me we were not going in, but i was on my original course. I felt this guy's pain, and he was probably very scare too. It was already day light. I told him to plot out position on the chart, gave him the coordinates and he plotted them. I was buying time and decide how to handle his anger. Once we plotted our position i explained to him that for us to make a run for land, would put us in the southern part of S Carolina and still had to deal with Georgia ICW,
a-never-ending-sneaking-running-aground-experience. With about two extra hours, we will be entering N florida and save a week on the ICW. I guarantee you we will be at anchor tonight and tomorrow we will sleep all day. Besides, i added, this is the time you prove yourself you are a young man and not an overgrown boy. I need you now in the wheel for two hours because i need to rest. I left him at the wheel. When i got up later on, i saw him, plotting in the chart, looking at other ships with binoculars, eating a sandwich, full of color and a big smile. Jose! thanks for that pep talk! i needed that. He told me. I was relieved, i had made a sailor out of him.
He was a great crew member. He has been back on my boat a couple of times visiting.

As far as my experience with the owner/captain i almost murdered (see my previous reply) the trip was full of details, not as gruesome but just as colorful. When i got home i spilled all my anger on the keyboard. 60 pages later i felt better.
Is not the owner/captain/crew. Is human nature and respect/compassion we have for each other. ALso recognize we all have a limit and ultimately, the size, muscles, hysterical attacks, etc. We all have a limit to how much sht we can take before we can take no more. We all have to recognize this.
Later
Jose
__________________
josepsaavedra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 00:45   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: wpb florida
Boat: piver 43 trimaran
Posts: 11
a great watch system!!

Tonight i am in a communicating mood. Let me pass down a watch system we used on a crossing from Barcelona to Caribbean.
We were 4 aboard. on a 65' sailboat The first part of the trip, Barcelona to Canary islands we had 2 crew up and on duty and 2 off watch, for 4 hours. Well, if my watch baddy gets his pillow and goes to sleep in the cockpit I will start slacking off and fall sleep also. It was not working!! and the system was changed.
On the second leg of the trip we had 1 active crew awake for 2 hours, and a second crew, sleeping in the cockpit as a standby. If i went forward to the bow, i would let him know and hopefully his subconscious mind would be alert... 2 hours later, the passive crew would become active, the guy going off watch makes coffee and wakes the next passive guy and goes to his bunk. The new passive guy gets his pillow, blanket and goes to the cockpit and can dowse for the next two hours until he becomes active.
With this watch system, no one felt sleep, there was always someone on dutty, it was only 2 hours watch, and there was always someone close by to call when you needed a hand. I was a great solution to a failing watch system.
__________________
josepsaavedra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 00:47   #68
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
In response to post #66, True enough Jose, but what you did was take that young man's mind out of the immediate misery and put is on something else, which was a wise thing for you to do, you also helped him with his self esteem and he became a better person for it.
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 07:03   #69
Registered User
 
cosmosmariner's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Western North Carolina USA
Boat: 1987 Watkins 25 Wu-Hsin
Posts: 77
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Van H View Post
what disorder would lead to rocking and growling?
You ever worked for ibm?!!! Navy might come in at a close second!
__________________
cosmosmariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 07:26   #70
Registered User
 
cosmosmariner's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Western North Carolina USA
Boat: 1987 Watkins 25 Wu-Hsin
Posts: 77
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Wade View Post
My real background is practical.
I was responsible for a lot of hiring during my career and I found the following, though not scientific, was a good start:

Eyes.
When interviewing the prospect look at their eyes. There should be little crinkles at the corners (laugh lines) .
No '1000 yard stares'.
Dilated pupils...drugs.
Contraction of pupils when asked a question...lying or negative association.
Bloodshot eyeballs...alcohol.
Can't see their eyes...drugs or way too worn out.

Body language.
No slouching.
Arms folded..they disagree with you or are not listening to you.
Head tilted to one side...they disagree with you or are not listening to you.
Sitting up straight...they're at least trying.
Leaning forward...they're interested...then look at the pupils!

Don't forget the sailing resume and references. If in doubt don't do it.
__________________
cosmosmariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 07:50   #71
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,580
Images: 240
Many of the tell-tale signs of lying, like fidgeting and sweating, can also be signs of ordinary anxiety. Itís tough to tell the difference between a liar and an honest person who happens to be under a lot of stress.

Hereís a couple of quickies:

How to Detect Lies:
How to detect lies - body language, reactions, speech patterns

Eye Direction and Lying
Eye Movement and Lying - How to detect lies
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 10:05   #72
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
As Gord says, it can be difficult to detect deception. In fact (and this has been studied, a lot), for every day people, the accuracy is quite poor, even when given training. Even with well trained professionals (FBI/Secret Service agents, homicide detectives, judges, psychologists, etc.) who spend years doing the work, the accuracy rate rarely exceeds 60% and is most often only somewhat better than chance. For regular folks, the accuracy is usually slightly worse than chance. In other words, unless you're one of those trained professionals, relying on those tips may very lead you to make the wrong conclusion.

Frankly, if you're trying to find out if someone is feeding you a bunch of bull, nothing beats doing plain old homework. If he/she says they've got a Yachtmaster certificate, then verify it. If he/she says they did a tran-ocean on S/V Whatever, then talk to the people on S/V Whatever. If they say they can tie a bowline with one hand, then ask them to demonstrate. If he says he was a rigger in the Navy, then ask to see their discharge papers. Yeah, it'll take you a few hours to verify stuff, but I think it would be worth it.

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 10:13   #73
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
As captain58sailin suggests, and I agree with him, I would think that the best way to confirm a potential crew is the shakedown cruise. A day or two off shore, especially if you can arrange some moderate weather, would likely tell you almost all that you need to know.

Of course, maybe you don't have much time. If you're looking at taking someone on for a extended cruise, then spending the time to sort through the candidates might take awhile all by itself. I'm curious -- how much time do you tend to spend on checking someone out? How do you do it? What are you looking for? How well has your method worked?

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 11:37   #74
Registered User
 
cosmosmariner's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Western North Carolina USA
Boat: 1987 Watkins 25 Wu-Hsin
Posts: 77
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Many of the tell-tale signs of lying, like fidgeting and sweating, can also be signs of ordinary anxiety. Itís tough to tell the difference between a liar and an honest person who happens to be under a lot of stress.

If a potential crew member is under that much stress being interviewed for the position I wouldn't take them. What will they do under real stress of a storm in the Gulf Stream? Not worth the chance.

As I said the sailing resume and references (doing the homework) is essential if your taking on crew. Even on an overnight trip that crew could make a 'judgment call' that could involve liabilities for you as the captain that would follow you your whole life!

I don't take on crew. I offer my suggestions about eyes and body language from decades of real life experience. Whittling down a stack of resume's takes time. Then interviewing takes time. Most times more than one interview may be necessary...in this case the additional interviews may be on the water performance demonstrations. I wouldn't waste my time arranging an on the water if the candidate fails the 'fidget' test. The point is to be sure and that process usually comes in stages.

As far as training to interview it isn't that hard..some people do it better than others that's all.
__________________
cosmosmariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 12:08   #75
Senior Cruiser
 
unbusted67's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Islesboro, ME
Boat: Looking for a new boat
Posts: 2,196
Images: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
I wonder is there is any sort of examination a layman could administer to potential crew that would help weed out the bad ones?

Other than knowing people a head of time, it seems there must be a better way than playing Russian Roulette with potential crew members.
I think the main thing is to just be a pessimist. It is a sad outlook to have on life but you really just can't trust people. You need to tune into that voice in the back of your head saying "this is not a good idea". Too often people ignore their instincts.

Unfortunately there is no way to tell how people will react in a stressful situation until you put them in one. I know I am often still surprised - and I'm sure anyone on this forum who isn't lying to themselves would agree - by myself and the way I react to stress. I think that is really the "test" people talk about when it comes to offshore sailing. It isn't "what I can take" but rather how you recognize your behaviors when you can't take any more and what you consciously do to modify them to make the best of a situation.

I so far feel untested and I think it would be a bit near sighted to say that only crazy crew have bad moments. If indeed one out of three people suffer from mental issues at one time or another then approximately 1.6 pages of this thread, so far, have been written by people who are capable of going nuts offshore or elsewhere for that matter.

What I am getting at is that the mind is a fragile thing, yours, mine, and the guy growling in the quarter birth, no exceptions.
__________________

__________________
unbusted67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Navigating 'Hell Gate' NY Heron Navigation 36 15-01-2011 07:03
One Hell of a Powerboat BadFish Powered Boats 11 08-07-2009 20:41
Battery Replacement from Hell.... markpj23 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 6 14-02-2009 00:47
How to stay out of maintenance hell. kennykroot Construction, Maintenance & Refit 52 29-06-2007 18:53



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:53.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.