Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-10-2010, 18:27   #16
Registered User
 
cfarrar's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brooklin, Maine U.S.A
Boat: Allures 44
Posts: 734
Images: 2
Curious about the shock loading, Dockhead. Just for our info, how long was the snubber between the hitch and the splice, and what diameter?

By the way, that's a good idea, using the dockline between the bow cleats. That might work for my snubber setup, too.
__________________

__________________
cfarrar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 02:50   #17
Registered User
 
rusky's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Queensland
Boat: Peterson 46
Posts: 340
Images: 6
Great story. I said it earlier so please ignore if I am repeating/rambling.

I shackle the snubber to a spot below the roller. It uses a standard chain hook at the other end.

There is no friction on anything and therefore no chafe. I have a short 3 m snub line and a 6m longer one. I would use the longer one in 30kn +.

I think what you did displayed good seamanship. You did not end up on the rocks because you didn't forget something! You had a snub line part under chafe. Hindsight would see a reason and a solution. The analysis is good seamanship (aka common and safe sense)

regards
david
__________________

__________________
rusky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 03:21   #18
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Oops, Studland is a nice spot but not in a SE.

Easy to sit in an arm chair afterwards and make suggestions but there is a second "North" channel for the Needles fairway which runs along Hurst Spit. You still get clobbered by the tide past Hurst but its only a 100 yards rather than several miles of wind over tide. The only nearby safe spot I can think of is Black Gang Shine with that forecast. Its shingle and pebble bottom and we can normally get right in out of the tide, but then we float on damp grass.

How is the end of the chain attached to the yacht? ours has a piece of thin rope (for quick release) and a stainless steel clip held on to a bulkhead with a pair of tiny self tappers. I doubt it would even hold a runaway chain running out let alone the yacht. Something perhaps I need to look at this winter.

Pete

I don't have the excuse that I couldn't get any further. I use the North Channel and in fact that's how we came yesterday. Our engine was running fine and with 100 hp we can punch through even a sping tide in the Needles Channel. Furthermore, I could have easily gone into Poole. I just didn't feel like working up against the tide, I just felt like anchoring, and thus endangered the craft.

Yes, the runaway chain has been bothering me and now is really bothering me. It's attached to a hard point in the chain locker like yours -- with a thin cord which no doubt would snap in a second if the chain were running out, which possibly disastrous consequences.

Recommend we should all think about this! There should be some positive last ditch stop on the end of the chain, it seems to me. Something which can be undone in case of need, in case of need to jettison the chain.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 03:25   #19
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Hi Dockhead.... lucky night huh...
Know that area well, you might have done better to pull into Poole and hung a left a coupla red bouys after the entrance and dropped the hook between Brownsea and Blood Alley... theres 5metres there and good holding.. if theres any east in the wind Studlands either uncomfortable or downright rough..
Alternativly take the north passage by Hurst Castle and let the tide help run you across to Totland Bay and then anchored in the shelter of the Isle of Wight..... but, alls well that ends well.
South Deep -- yes, would have been much better, or indeed Totland Bay.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 03:28   #20
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfarrar View Post
Curious about the shock loading, Dockhead. Just for our info, how long was the snubber between the hitch and the splice, and what diameter?

By the way, that's a good idea, using the dockline between the bow cleats. That might work for my snubber setup, too.
It was about 12mm, I guess, which was clearly too small for the boat. I have been meaning to upgrade it. About 6 meters long. Not enough to carry the shock loads from a bow plunging up and down in the swell.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 04:13   #21
Registered User
 
Eleven's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southampton UK
Boat: Jaguar 22 mono called Arfur.
Posts: 1,220
Images: 3
You and the boat survived. That's good seamanshio.
And you've come clean about it which helps you to decide on future precautions.
Remember the thread about tropical storms, many lines that parted there were of the plastic variety, they melted from the energy put into them (overheated and softened).
My anchor chain had no fixing when I bought the boat. It is now tied to a big eyebolt in a solid bulkhead. Not sure it would survive that sort of treatment but at least I'd know about it.
I also deploy a second light anchor, often off the stern. The rope can be lead into the saloon and tied to my ankle (or a couple of saucepans). Any dragging just might wake me up. Useful technique too when run aground. Lets you know when the boat starts moving, even just swinging.
Certainly in those circumstances I'd have put my second big anchor out, on a different strong rope, with extra slack, just in case the first system dragged or failed, or swinging loosened the bite of the primary one. Especially usefull if the primary anchor won't release.
On my 'run aground on a lee shore' I spent an hour on the bows, getting frequently drenched, once or twice in solid water. I didn't feel the cold at the time, it was a sunny afternoon, but I should have had a harnessed life vest ON and strap available before I went forward. Did you? I didn't need it, cats are more kindly that way, but it's not a good idea to go body surfing on your own decks.
__________________
Ex Prout 31 Sailor, Now it's a 22ft Jaguar called 'Arfur' here in sunny Southampton, UK.
A few places left in Quayside Marina and Kemps Marina.
Eleven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 04:20   #22
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

Yes, the runaway chain has been bothering me and now is really bothering me. It's attached -- with a thin cord which no doubt would snap .
Perhpas get a longer thin cord that can be easily cut and pass it through a shackle on the end of your chain and through a shackle or ring etc on you solid point. Pass it through many times so that although its thin it is as strong as your chain.

If you need to cut it away its easy But it hopefully will stop a runaway chain

Mark
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 04:39   #23
Registered User
 
cliffdykes's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Boat: Building 31 ft cat
Posts: 80
Send a message via ICQ to cliffdykes
I'm planning to use one of Colligo Marine's soft shackles to secure my bitter end to the newly installed eye bolt in my anchor locker.
Not cheap but worth the investment I think.

Cheers
Cliff
__________________
cliffdykes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 06:10   #24
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Perhpas get a longer thin cord that can be easily cut and pass it through a shackle on the end of your chain and through a shackle or ring etc on you solid point. Pass it through many times so that although its thin it is as strong as your chain.

If you need to cut it away its easy But it hopefully will stop a runaway chain

Mark
That's a very good idea. Maybe Dyneema, eh? A few loops of that will be as strong as the chain.

I'm afraid the strong point may not be up to it. It's a ring in the chain locker attached to the bulkhead with a through-bolt. But I don't think it would be a whole lot of trouble to put in a backing plate to make a stronger strong point.

And a chain stopper, well secured.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 06:12   #25
Registered User
 
rusky's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Queensland
Boat: Peterson 46
Posts: 340
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffdykes View Post
I'm planning to use one of Colligo Marine's soft shackles to secure my bitter end to the newly installed eye bolt in my anchor locker.
Not cheap but worth the investment I think.

Cheers
Cliff
Hi Cliff

I think I prefer to have a line attached to the bitter end of the chain solely on order to cut away if needed. Needs to be tough enough to hold -

I have 80m on one anchor and 68 on the other - and can join if necessary - both with 16mm dbl braid long enough to reach the deck, just before the gypsy. - Its all theory so far - never needed to 'lose' a chain but know someone who has - half way from Fiji to Brisbane
__________________
rusky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 06:20   #26
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by rusky View Post
I shackle the snubber to a spot below the roller. It uses a standard chain hook at the other end.

There is no friction on anything and therefore no chafe. I have a short 3 m snub line and a 6m longer one. I would use the longer one in 30kn +.


regards
david
That's a great setup. Not practical for my case -- I'm just not going to start drilling holes in my stem -- but if you've got it then you've got a perfect setup.

Another advantage you have is that the vector of force from your snubber will be applied lower down. A lot of stress resulted -- I was feeling it and thinking about it all night -- from the fact that the chain pulling tight against the snubber tries to pull the bow down, and maybe just at the moment when the bow is being lifted by a swell.

I've had an idea to improve chafe resistance of my snubber, short of making swiss cheese out of my stem:

Make a bridle of stainless steel cable with two loops to slip over either bow cleat.

Steel cable goes over the bronze bow roller (the spare one) and terminates in an eye and a shackle. The snubber, a heavy three-strand nylon job, is shackled to that via an eye splice. And is rolling-hitched to the chain six meters or so further down.

That way, the nylon doesn't touch anything, and all the chafe is taken care of by steel cable running smoothly over the bronze bow roller.

How about that?
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 06:41   #27
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
...I've had an idea to improve chafe resistance of my snubber, short of making swiss cheese out of my stem:

Make a bridle of stainless steel cable with two loops to slip over either bow cleat.

Steel cable goes over the bronze bow roller (the spare one) and terminates in an eye and a shackle. The snubber, a heavy three-strand nylon job, is shackled to that via an eye splice. And is rolling-hitched to the chain six meters or so further down.

That way, the nylon doesn't touch anything, and all the chafe is taken care of by steel cable running smoothly over the bronze bow roller.

How about that?
I don't think I could stand the grinding of the steel cable against the bronze--wouldn't it be like sitting in a dentist's chair for hours?

Simple chafe protection works pretty well with nylon or polyester line. My boat rode out these breaking swells for 10-12 hours with 5/8" double braid polyester wrapped in an old towel where it went over the anchor roller. I had a second one rigged in reserve, a bit slack, but the first held just fine. I was on a mooring, but it would seem that the same would apply to a snubber on an anchor chain.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	The Belle surfing.jpg
Views:	143
Size:	85.6 KB
ID:	20678  
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 06:42   #28
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Not that this thread would have had anything to do with it but I just decided to go and give my kit a once over and found a new way to make sure the chain-stopper on the windlass works correctly... and I put some chafe guard on... and checked the snubber........ Can I go back to doing nothing now?
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 06:46   #29
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,209
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

I only use chain on my boats... don't trust rope except on the Kedge...
After attatching the snub rope and feeding out the required length of chain to sag into the water I then attatch another two lines (hook onto chain) on deck just aft of the roller which I tie off onto port and stbd deck cleats... if the snubber breaks these then take the load and give me time to get forward and figure my options...
I do this only in 'extreme' circumstances though... 95% of the time its just the snubber of line and hook...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 06:50   #30
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Great photo, Hud!

The dink is on the back, but you were not on the boat were you?
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, anchoring

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
This Is Good Seamanship ?! SvenG Seamanship & Boat Handling 38 22-10-2010 07:08
Seamanship . . . Not SimonV Seamanship & Boat Handling 2 25-07-2010 05:20
'Seamanship' Pelagic Seamanship & Boat Handling 70 28-10-2009 07:03
Seamanship and Safety Kai Nui Challenges 0 09-08-2008 17:04
A most impressive demonstration of seamanship Craig Harlamoff Seamanship & Boat Handling 11 11-06-2006 00:45



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:30.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.