Options for Non-Mass-Produced Boats

[SaltyMonkey]

All:

- Posting the Mahina list is not what I call a "personal" response or investment to the actual question posed by the OP. Please remove it. Also, I already know this list. I follow this list when buying. Everyone I know is aware of this list. If I walk into any bloody diner in this country in any small town, and ask anyone if they every heard of this list they will say "YES!" So, it's not telling me anything specific w/ regards to the OP question.
- There are many lists out there. That's not to say the lists tell you anything. There are quite a few boats on this list and others that suck as boats. Point being, you don't know why the boats are on there to begin with.
- I hope to gain some real information about Hunter's. I'm looking for a new boat. I still have not seen any from anywhere, such as what models ARE strong? I guess at this point there aren't any.

[Curmudgeon]

The Hunter Cherubinis manufactured in the mid 1980s are well regarded.

This thread has nothing to do with snobbery. A Lexus is a better car than a Chevrolet: better performance and much more durable. That's why people are willing to pay alot more for a Lexus. The market sets value.

[SaltyMonkey]

Ok, the Hunter Cherubinis is one. I don't like the interior believe it or not, but it's one that falls into the middle of the cruising pack.

[CharlieCobra]

I like the H-54, except the dinghy garage and the forward placement of the rudder due to that. Narrow, well built, fast cruising boat that can be a bit squirrely offwind...

[Ken on Satori]

I don't like blanket bashing either. As I said on the previous post, it depends on your need. If I only did beer can races and week end fun local trips, a early 80s Hunter 35 would be fine. Light, fast and responsive but not built for off shore. Hunter builds boats for a market. They make money for a reason. I don't personally think they really believe they make RTW boats. They make boats for the masses to get on the water.

My needs required a different boat. I don't care to race and if I need to go someplace fast I will take the Cessna. I want comfort and ability to go anywhere. I chose a Westsail and it fit my needs for eight years very well. My first boat was a Sunfish. It was perfect for what I wanted. My first big boat was a South Coast. Fit the bill and sold when my need changed.

A friend noted on a Corpus Christi/ Vera Cruz race that his trip on a ULDB was tough and they arrived tired. Took a day just to rest up. On his second race aboard a Westsail they arrived later but refreshed, well fed and ready to party. Works for me. Ken

[RTB]

Ken, maybe you don't mean to sound this way but I see your post above as bashing Hunters. You say they are good for beer can races and fun local trips.

Not sure what you are saying about the CC-Vera Cruz race? I believe if it was that rough, the crew would have been worn out whatever they were sailing.

Your first big boat was a South Coast. It fit the bill...just what does fit your bill?

From a previous post of yours...
<Started dreaming in 1975. Bought a boat in 2000. Worked to pay off and get kids out of school (University). Had first of three heart attacks in 02. Second in 04. Last one in 06. Now disabled (we tried to go but my heart is just too bad) and have sold the boat. DO NOT WAIT TOO LONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ken on Satori>

I was just wondering-during the ten years you owned your boat and having three heart attacks during that period-maybe you'd care to tell us about the oceans you crossed? I guess you arived at port all rested and relaxed...

I just sailed with a friend from N.E. Florida to Cartagena, Colombia. I would not hesitate to do the trip on my old Hunter at the right time of the year (not summer).

[atmartin]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

This thread has nothing to do with snobbery. A Lexus is a better car than a Chevrolet: better performance and much more durable. That's why people are willing to pay alot more for a Lexus. The market sets value.

A reasonable comparison, but misleading.

MSRP V6 Toyota Camry ~$25k (Base)
MSRP Lexus ES 350 ~$35k (Base)

Lexus is the luxury division of Toyota. The Camry and ES350 share the same frame, engine and much more. No one would expect the ES350 to outlast the Camry, nor would they expect to be any less safe in the Camry.

Most reasonable people would expect more luxury features and sexier styling from the Lexus. Another breed of folks might get off on the snob factor.

Market sets value, but brand name is enormously important in the auto market. To the point of people paying a premium for cars that perform worse than less prestigious brands. A CorvetteZ06 will smoke much more expensive sports cars (most Porsche's, etc).

Cars are far more rigorously tested than boats (crashed, performance tested and made in much greater numbers), yet still brand name and consumer perception has a great effect on people's choices.

So it's reasonable to expect that consumers are even more brand-conscious with boats. Considering the slavish devotion to authorities and lists, I'd say that's the case.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by atmartin

Cars are far more rigorously tested than boats (crashed, performance tested and made in much greater numbers), yet still brand name and consumer perception has a great effect on people's choices.

you mean like when toyota tested their computerized accelerators?

[atmartin]

Originally Posted by gonesail

you mean like when toyota tested their computerized accelerators?

I was going to venture to say that having to 'prove' their econoboxes to wary and unfriendly American consumers, Toyota built quality vehicles. In the last 5 years or so, the quality has gone downhill. They built a brand name that people trusted and could cash in on that by lowering production quality.

But I don't want to get into that debate.

As I remember, the pricier Lexuses shared the same issues

[CharlieCobra]

Yes they did...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

Keep in mind I have never owned or been on a Hunter. I just wonder if Hunter bashing is more a sport than anything else.

All I'm trying to determine is the turth instead of baseless statements that say something. I let this forum a few years ago convince me most production boats were crap. Now that I have more experience I'm willing to question some of my beliefs, maybe some open mindness by others is in order.

So I want to hear what makes your boat better! And if it is true (and it well could be) how much does it cost. If you want to bash a Hunter or such and then say that your replacement is going to cost 2 times the price; all I can say I sure hope the boat is better since you are spending so much.

Isn't this a little like someone buying a Lexus and then saying it has a 5 Star crash rating as justification? ....But then most cars have 5 Star crash ratings.

If you are aganist Hunter or other production boats due to status or bragging rights that's OK, just admit it!

And we never got even CLOSE to 6 replies that answered the items in the orginal questiion before turning into a new general bash!

Well, mass production is the most efficient way to produce anything. So you will get more bang for your buck by buying a production boat. If you're being completely reasonable about it, it is the only choice.

Out of production boats I particularly like Beneteaus, which are not built quite as extremely to a price point as Hunters, and which have the benefit of a lot of serious R&D which even much more expensive boats don't. They are really good for what they are and sail better than most boats which cost double or triple.

I do not own a production boat, but that is only because I was lucky in business and could afford to make an unreasonable expenditure, paying double or triple the price for something at most 10% or 20% better. Non-production boats are just nicer; they have had more labor and money lavished on them in the production process. But I was careful to choose a non-production boat designed by a good designer and from a yard which is known for paying attention to technology (if not for Swan or Oyster quality). There are many expensive non-production boats which are beautifully made but which don't really work all that well, because the production run was not big enough to justify much development, I guess. My boat is known a good performer (one of the main criteria for choosing her) but she will not outsail a comparable Bene; in fact I think a Bene First of the same era would run away from her.

If I had been less lucky in business there is no doubt in my mind that I would be sailing a Bene, which is more rational choice of a boat for most purposes. One can sail to a budget by buying a non-production, but older boat. We had that conversation on another thread so no point in going into it here.

[slomotion]

Our '83 Hunter 34 proved to be a good Bahamas/Caribbean cruising platform and she served us well. We liked most everything about her - well, except for the ever present feeling of doom.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Eleebana

To All Hunter Owners

Your welcome to raft up next me anytime and

To all hunter Owners, you are not welcome to raft up next to me.

Why? because when we tried to raft up next to my bosses 33 we found the hunter hull is the exact opposite to tumblehome and leans outwards to the point that even with our normal sized fenders, in a bit of a swell the decks were going to crash together.

That said it suits my boss down to the ground for weekend coastal cruising. Easy to sail, nicely equipped plus light and airy down below.

Pete

[shadow]

Bottom line, I think ALL boats have their pros and cons and then it is again multiplied by the varied needs of each person.. I think the only way a boat can be nearly perfect is to have one custom made, which is rare indeed.

Perfect example, a small hunter or other boats have circumnavigated the world, when an 8 million dollar motor yacht sank during launch because of a faulty part around the shaft(s). At face value, you would never think that would EVER happen.

[SaltyMonkey]

ummm what "small hunters" have circumnavigated the world?