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Old 04-10-2016, 10:32   #61
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

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Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
And Ralphie Nader attacked the Corvair but not the Bug, which launched his political career.

Ahh, politics.
Ralph Nader was an idiot. The Corvair was one of the best handling cars made.

A 911 was probably better but not much else at the time was.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:00   #62
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

There were a couple of Brothers that used to race a Corvair Corsa I believe at Road Atl., did pretty well against the Factory Porsche's if I remember correctly. Whittinton Bros?
I want to think the flat 6 cyl air cooled turbo Corvair came well before the Porsche Turbo?

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Old 04-10-2016, 11:10   #63
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

I don't know when the Corvair turbo came out but I do remember the Porsche Can-Am turbos and the McClarrin v8s. The Porche had a nice whine to it and the McClarrins broke my poor eardrums. The Porsche could spin 21 inch slicks. My impression was that Porsche pioneered turbos in road cars but that could be a wrong impression.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:16   #64
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Unless mistaken the Turbo Corvair was 10 yrs before the first Turbo Porsche. I could be wrong cause that would make the Porsche in 1975, and I thought they were before that, but the first turbo Corvair was 1965, I think.
ALL US made cars of that era handled horribly, and would not stop, but the Corvair did better than most, Actually all cars handled horribly and would not stop.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:27   #65
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
There were a couple of Brothers that used to race a Corvair Corsa I believe at Road Atl., did pretty well against the Factory Porsche's if I remember correctly. Whittinton Bros?
I want to think the flat 6 cyl air cooled turbo Corvair came well before the Porsche Turbo?
]
Indeed -- the 3.0 Turbo Carrera came out in 1975, more than 10 year after the Corvair Turbo, which was an amazingly avant garde car for its time.

You cannot however really compare these cars; the final and most powerful Corvair Turbo developed 180hp gross (probably 150 real horsepower), compared to 260 real horsepower from the original Turbo Carrera; the 3.3 liter one had 300. The Porsches were of course overhead cam, fuel injected, and a completely different level of sophistication.

I actually owned a Porsche Turbo briefly, just for one summer (it was 1985, and I was living in Germany). It was a 3.0 liter Turbo Carrera -- lime green! -- which was one of Alois Ruf's first conversions. It had been souped up and had the "Dampfrad" boost regulator, and made about 320 horsepower.

It was an absolute blast to drive, but the 3.3 liter Turbo which came out in '78 was vastly better with much better brakes and better running, intercooled engine.

These were absolutely great cars, would go like stink, like rockets, but with stopping and handling to match, but were absolutely usable everyday drivers, docile and easy to drive in traffic, and as dead reliable as a Mercedes, maybe more so. When the boost came on, it was like being launched into space . . . but you wouldn't hesitate to use it to pick up the dry cleaning in traffic. Fantastic cars; a fantastic achievement of engineering.

The 3.3 liter Turbo is my other favorite Porsche, besides the 2.2 liter 911S. If I had more money and were more tied to land, I'd have one of each at my lake house, just for fun.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:45   #66
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
And Ralphie Nader attacked the Corvair but not the Bug, which launched his political career.

Ahh, politics.
Ralph Nader was an idiot. The Corvair was one of the best handling cars made.

A 911 was probably better but not much else at the time was.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:48   #67
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

I'm a little familar, My Brother had a 1978 911 SC that he traded for I think a 1980 930 Weissach (sp?) and later traded it for that God Awful 928.
The 911 Sc was in my opinion the most fun car to drive, the 930 wasn't very manageable and took planning and practice on a particular course, you had to have the brake and turning markers memorized, it didn't do well just being driven.
Joke was most were wrecked in the back end. Coming out of a corner you would get on it, Turbo would come alive, rear end would break loose and come around and car would enter the ditch going backward. A lot of truth to that actually as 911's were not an easy car to drive fast, turbo just made it worse. You could not throw one into a corner, if you did then you would discover inertia and the fact that the engine is the part of the car with the most inertia. A 911 had to be allowed to let the suspension "set" that is you had to let the car turn in, then you could tighten the turn, but if you tried to do it all at once then the back end would indeed pass the front end.


Corvair was never meant to be a sporty car, it was meant to be an inexpensive way for the working man to get around, nothing more, which made the Corsa such a remarkable car.
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Old 04-10-2016, 12:06   #68
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I'm a little familar, My Brother had a 1978 911 SC that he traded for I think a 1980 930 Weissach (sp?) and later traded it for that God Awful 928.
The 911 Sc was in my opinion the most fun car to drive, the 930 wasn't very manageable and took planning and practice on a particular course, you had to have the brake and turning markers memorized, it didn't do well just being driven.
Joke was most were wrecked in the back end. Coming out of a corner you would get on it, Turbo would come alive, rear end would break loose and come around and car would enter the ditch going backward. A lot of truth to that actually as 911's were not an easy car to drive fast, turbo just made it worse. You could not throw one into a corner, if you did then you would discover inertia and the fact that the engine is the part of the car with the most inertia. A 911 had to be allowed to let the suspension "set" that is you had to let the car turn in, then you could tighten the turn, but if you tried to do it all at once then the back end would indeed pass the front end.


Corvair was never meant to be a sporty car, it was meant to be an inexpensive way for the working man to get around, nothing more, which made the Corsa such a remarkable car.
911s were hard to drive for people who grew up with front-heavy, understeering cars, but were really not hard to drive fast once you got used to the weight distribution. Going around a corner in a four wheel drift -- easy to do for a skillful 911 driver -- is much faster and feels much better than plowing around in understeer.

I did a sub 10 minute lap of the Nurburgring Nordschleife in my '80 SC Targa -- with girlfriend and even luggage on board. Short of something like a Lotise Elise, or a real race car, a 911 is the ultimate car for that course with 160 (!) turns, IIRC -- the car just dances around track. I've never had half as much fun with any other cars, than with the various 911s I've owned.

As to the 928 -- I also had one of these, actually a 928S -- which I used as my daily driver for about 5 years. It was not the masterpiece of a car as the 911 was, but it was an interesting and very unusual, even bizarre car, with a lot of good points. I loved the rumbling 4.7 liter V8, and the sound and feel of the car. But that car was a real widowmaker -- the weird "weissach axle" would give you instant and vicious oversteer if you overcooked it. I never even came close to spinning out any of my 911s in hundreds of thousands of miles of hard fast driving, and certainly not the more docile later ones with wider rear tires, but I had a few "interesting" adventures with the 928 on wet roads.
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Old 04-10-2016, 12:21   #69
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I'm a little familar, My Brother had a 1978 911 SC that he traded for I think a 1980 930 Weissach (sp?) and later traded it for that God Awful 928.
The 911 Sc was in my opinion the most fun car to drive, the 930 wasn't very manageable and took planning and practice on a particular course, you had to have the brake and turning markers memorized, it didn't do well just being driven.
Joke was most were wrecked in the back end. Coming out of a corner you would get on it, Turbo would come alive, rear end would break loose and come around and car would enter the ditch going backward. A lot of truth to that actually as 911's were not an easy car to drive fast, turbo just made it worse. You could not throw one into a corner, if you did then you would discover inertia and the fact that the engine is the part of the car with the most inertia. A 911 had to be allowed to let the suspension "set" that is you had to let the car turn in, then you could tighten the turn, but if you tried to do it all at once then the back end would indeed pass the front end.


Corvair was never meant to be a sporty car, it was meant to be an inexpensive way for the working man to get around, nothing more, which made the Corsa such a remarkable car.
The Corsa was a blown Corvair.The Corvair would get 20mpg,tuned or not, the Corsa 6 to 8. The only problem I had with a 65 sedan was the two speed automatic tranny. Trying to pass at highway speed was a problem. No balls in high and about had to red line it when you dropped it down. At any rate the independent suspension was great. I enjoyed going through cloverleaves and watching people bounce off the curbing in the mirror. Wish I had a manual 4 speed coupe.
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