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Old 03-10-2016, 12:41   #46

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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Never having heard of a "March" pump, I went looking online to find that's just a brand name. And March says "March pumps can potentially tolerate liquid temperatures of 190 Fahrenheit or 87 Celsius. The pumps are capable of generating a maximum flow of 2.7 gallons per minute at 1 foot, " so I suspect the 2.7gpm may be one problem with using one for cooling water">engine cooling water. The 190F max could also be a problem, as an overheated engine could boil the intake cooling water above that.


But then, there are other problems. An engine-driven mechanical water pump is a variable speed pump. It supplies more water as the engine turns faster and needs more water. It is also designed to sacrifice itself. That is, if something gets into the raw water intake and sucked into the rubber impeller blades, the blades self-destruct and the pump shaft and seals are 'saved'. All that's needed is a new impeller, which once was cheap, as opposed to replacing a bashed-up set of hard metal gears or other "sturdy" parts.


For just the closed coolant cycle pump on an engine, if there's room and power to install one, it certainly would seem sensible, at a price. And assuming the 2.7gpm was sufficient. And, bearing in mind, one big point in favor of marine diesels was that if the electrical system failed, they didn't care. Now with an electrical water pump, there's another vulnerability. And carrying a spare would be quite a bit costlier, and bulkier, than carrying a half dozen spare impellers, wouldn't it?


Or am I missing something here?


Dockhead, it sounds like all you need is an ISO9000 maintenance procedure. You know, with checklists and countersigning and other formal stuff, and a couple of armed guards on deck who block all visitors, phone calls, and other interruptions that can inevitably cause process failures.(G)


Being able to get into focus and "flow time" without something always interrupting...all too rare these days.
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Old 03-10-2016, 13:02   #47
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Never having heard of a "March" pump, I went looking online to find that's just a brand name. And March says "March pumps can potentially tolerate liquid temperatures of 190 Fahrenheit or 87 Celsius. The pumps are capable of generating a maximum flow of 2.7 gallons per minute at 1 foot, " so I suspect the 2.7gpm may be one problem with using one for engine cooling water. The 190F max could also be a problem, as an overheated engine could boil the intake cooling water above that.


But then, there are other problems. An engine-driven mechanical water pump is a variable speed pump. It supplies more water as the engine turns faster and needs more water. It is also designed to sacrifice itself. That is, if something gets into the raw water intake and sucked into the rubber impeller blades, the blades self-destruct and the pump shaft and seals are 'saved'. All that's needed is a new impeller, which once was cheap, as opposed to replacing a bashed-up set of hard metal gears or other "sturdy" parts.


For just the closed coolant cycle pump on an engine, if there's room and power to install one, it certainly would seem sensible, at a price. And assuming the 2.7gpm was sufficient. And, bearing in mind, one big point in favor of marine diesels was that if the electrical system failed, they didn't care. Now with an electrical water pump, there's another vulnerability. And carrying a spare would be quite a bit costlier, and bulkier, than carrying a half dozen spare impellers, wouldn't it?


Or am I missing something here?

. . .
2.7GPM is plenty for this engine (Yanmar 3TNE74, 1000 cc), and variable speed is not needed -- it's a constant speed 1500 RPM generator!

If the electrical system failed, then the generator wouldn't be working, nicht wahr?

And how can the intake water get boiled? This is just weird.

I agree with A64 and see no drawbacks whatsoever to this approach.

Mechanical impeller seawater pumps are horrendously expensive and a royal PITA to maintain. God, am I ever tired of picking impeller fragments out of the heat exchanger. As A64 said -- if they fail, seawater may get sprayed around inside the sound enclosure -- ugh. I am definitely going to a March pump at some point.
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Old 03-10-2016, 13:17   #48
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Didn't own a VW; my first was a 1946 surplus Willys GP, even simpler a bug.
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Old 03-10-2016, 13:20   #49

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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Ah, JUST for the genset. I did miss something then, the specific context.
As for boiling the intake water...I lost a headgasket once, in a car. By the time everything stopped cooking off, some engine wiring, the distributor cap (not located directly on the block) and even the radiator caps had literally slagged down from excess heat after the entire cooling system had been boiled dry.


When there's no coolant running, an engine block finds all sorts of creative ways to spread the heat around.


But in your context...Yes, that does start to make a lot of sense.
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Old 03-10-2016, 13:46   #50
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

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Hippy Sailor girl with a Force 5 back then. The 71 bus had the 1600cc bug engine, 72 on got complicated.
I guess the Peoples Car was the one good thing Hitler claimed to come up with.

The one my wife had, had the small oval tail lights. When it dropped a rod it was a mess.
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Old 03-10-2016, 14:12   #51
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

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Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25 View Post
You guys forgot about the heater box cables that were, in Canada, so corroded that they were near impossible to undo. If you cut the wires you needed to fish ( arg ) the new ones through the tunnel.
Re. and re. engine 30 minutes heater box cables...forever!
And then there was a battery under the back seat that bounced out of its holder and started a fire when it shorted out on the seat frame.

Bought mine (very) used from one of my high school teachers for $75, had some fun with it, took the engine apart and put it back together just to see if I could (it never ran again), and sold it for parts to two different friends for a total of $80.
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Old 03-10-2016, 14:26   #52
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Quote "And then there was a battery under the back seat that bounced out of its holder and started a fire when it shorted out on the seat frame."

You too :-0)? The car stank forevermore from the charred horsehair used in the upholstery!

I understood subsequently that you were supposed to put the moulded fibre cover back over top of the battery. Hm...

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Old 03-10-2016, 14:40   #53
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Got a 68 beatle for a 6-pack of domestic beer!
Ran for 3 weeks until it threw a rod,
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Old 03-10-2016, 15:01   #54
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

And then, of course, there was the rear suspension that if you pushed it too far it caused the car to roll. And the stinking dangerous gas heaters. But almost everyone that owned one loved it.
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Old 03-10-2016, 15:13   #55
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

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And then, of course, there was the rear suspension that if you pushed it too far it caused the car to roll. And the stinking dangerous gas heaters. But almost everyone that owned one loved it.
One I had, bug, became uncontrollable on a wet road. I think it may have had some accident damage prior to me buying it. It got traded asap.

The 60 Corvair also had a gas heater. It did put out some heat as apposed engine driven heater.
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Old 03-10-2016, 15:47   #56
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Someone mentioned Karmann Ghia. Brings back a vivid memory.

All-night flight to the West Coast. Friend I was visiting met me at the airport just as it was getting hot out. She'd enlisted the help of a friend with a Karmann Ghia. And two very large dogs. The four of them met me in the Karmann Ghia. My spot was in the back with the dogs and my luggage. The dogs had long ago removed every scrap of fabric and foam from the seats, so I was sitting on springs. The dogs were slobbering. No air conditioning. If you know the size of a Karmann Ghia back seat, you're beginning to understand.

I won't go into what an awful flight it had been; it's that ride to my friend's house that made it memorable.
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Old 03-10-2016, 16:11   #57
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Our car had 88 mm jugs which bumped displacement to 1800 CC I think, an 077 pure mechanical distributor and a Holley "bug spray" carburetor. Being an 1800 cc motor with more than stock HP made the heater work very well indeed, it would actually soften the backseat floor mats and you could smell the melting plastic, that was time to turn the heat down, you remember the knobs by the parking brake?
Anyway it was actually sort of a Hot Rod. This was in the late 70's where all US cars were pigs, and my little Bug would jump most from stop light to stoplight, make mincemeat out of a 914 Porsche, surely that was never sold as a Porsche anywhere but the US right?

Remember what powered the windshield washer? Another pure stoke of genius, and you knew if the spare was getting flat too
I read somewhere that putting the spare up there enormously increased the crash worthiness of the car.

I only have fond memories of the car, but drove one years later and couldn't figure out how I tolerated the tiny thing, with no power, no AC, noisy and handled like dirt.

I would love to have my Westfalia though, it was a really neat vehicle, I have looked and they are apparently very desirable.


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Old 04-10-2016, 07:52   #58
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

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Our car had 88 mm jugs which bumped displacement to 1800 CC I think, an 077 pure mechanical distributor and a Holley "bug spray" carburetor. Being an 1800 cc motor with more than stock HP made the heater work very well indeed, it would actually soften the backseat floor mats and you could smell the melting plastic, that was time to turn the heat down, you remember the knobs by the parking brake?
Anyway it was actually sort of a Hot Rod. This was in the late 70's where all US cars were pigs, and my little Bug would jump most from stop light to stoplight, make mincemeat out of a 914 Porsche, surely that was never sold as a Porsche anywhere but the US right?

Remember what powered the windshield washer? Another pure stoke of genius, and you knew if the spare was getting flat too
I read somewhere that putting the spare up there enormously increased the crash worthiness of the car.

I only have fond memories of the car, but drove one years later and couldn't figure out how I tolerated the tiny thing, with no power, no AC, noisy and handled like dirt.

I would love to have my Westfalia though, it was a really neat vehicle, I have looked and they are apparently very desirable.


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I'm glad you beat me to the comment on the 914.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:36   #59
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

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And then, of course, there was the rear suspension that if you pushed it too far it caused the car to roll. And the stinking dangerous gas heaters. But almost everyone that owned one loved it.
And Ralphie Nader attacked the Corvair but not the Bug, which launched his political career.

Ahh, politics.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:42   #60
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Re: Operator Error, Diagnostic Procedure, Cascade of Failures.

Thanks for sharing!
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