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Old 30-01-2015, 17:00   #46
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Re: My misguided faith

another worthvile for these sea sheppards guys that preach their misery to weak: prohibit monohull motorboats as they create large beach eroding wake.

Go on, dont be afraid !!!


pussies
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Old 30-01-2015, 17:12   #47
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Re: My misguided faith

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OK, I have to ask: how does a boat and an ice fishing hut get into the same space? If an icebreaker, what was an ice fishing hut doing on navigable waters?

Mark
Lots of ice fishing huts on navigatable waters, but here's how it works. Ice breakers tend to run in the 200-250' range. Usually a fairly narrow- or at least not wide hull form so they don't get caught up on ice. Lets assume a 40' beam for arguments sake (I actually can't remember exact beam). A Lakers averages very close to 75' beam. You see the problem here.

Strategy here for the ice - breaker is to put the coals to her, run as hard as they can all the time. The ship cuts the ice, but what breaks the path wide enough for the following Lakers is the stern wake.

Now let's assume your on a 10k hp ice breaker and you need 10" of ice to float an ice fishing hit. Well the ice breakers doing maybe 12, 13 knots through 10" ice. This isn't leaving a wake of broken ice 75' wide, it's leaving a path of broken ice 500+ feet wide. So let's say the channel is 200' wide, and dumb dumb parks his hut right on the channel edge (because that's where the best fishing is), he loses his hut.

Now of course CG puts out a notmar before heading out, but how many recreational boaters listen diligently to Notmar transmissions. This occurrence is rare, because, the last thing the CG wants is to sink a pickup truck load full of ice fisherman, but ice can be unpredictable and well. Stuff happens.

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Old 30-01-2015, 17:40   #48
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Re: My misguided faith

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Paintball gun; runs 25 rnds per second and 350 FPS. You can paint a waking motorboat pretty quick. If they call the authorities on you they get to explain why they were passing you at speed within the range of a paintball gun.

Brilliant.

Now I'm gonna look for glow in the dark pink paintballs...


Peace.
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Old 30-01-2015, 18:52   #49
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Re: My misguided faith

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What do you do when the offender is the Coast Guard?
Mike, if you had noted the name/ID number of the CG vessel, and reported it in writing to the local district head office, I expect that you would have gotten at least a pro forma response, and that the offending skipper would catch hell from the boss man.

There was an incident many years ago in the Alameda Estuary where a 44 footer went booming back up the channel, heading home (not on an emergency run), causing some damage to boats in the marina where we lived aboard. There was a gratifying amount of response. The CG does not like that sort of publicity to start up (ie complaints to the media).

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Old 30-01-2015, 19:02   #50
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Re: My misguided faith

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Mike, if you had noted the name/ID number of the CG vessel, and reported it in writing to the local district head office, I expect that you would have gotten at least a pro forma response, and that the offending skipper would catch hell from the boss man.

There was an incident many years ago in the Alameda Estuary where a 44 footer went booming back up the channel, heading home (not on an emergency run), causing some damage to boats in the marina where we lived aboard. There was a gratifying amount of response. The CG does not like that sort of publicity to start up (ie complaints to the media).

Jim
Hi Jim, USCG I would agree, but from the brief description I get the impression Mikewas outbound the Detroit River via the Livingston Channel, more likely a Canadian cutter out of Amherstburg. I may be assuming too much, but I know the area well.

A call to Sarnia wouldn't be wasted still though. But in CCG it's a very different command structure. The radio centre is over 100 miles from the station, different management etc. Still worth a call though.

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Old 30-01-2015, 19:05   #51
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Re: My misguided faith

We got waked by USCG in Texas and I called the station. They put the guy driving the boat on the phone with me. He apologized.
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Old 30-01-2015, 19:38   #52
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Re: My misguided faith

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Hi Jim, USCG I would agree, but from the brief description I get the impression Mikewas outbound the Detroit River via the Livingston Channel, more likely a Canadian cutter out of Amherstburg. I may be assuming too much, but I know the area well.

A call to Sarnia wouldn't be wasted still though. But in CCG it's a very different command structure. The radio centre is over 100 miles from the station, different management etc. Still worth a call though.
Close, but actually we were inbound coming into Port Dover. We were under sail as we approached the marina entrance. As I say, we knew we were sailing along at a slow speed, so running close to the right side approach, close to the buoys, so as to give everyone else lots of space. The CCG cutter was also inbound, and overtook us at high speed. It had tons of space to pass us on the port, but chose instead to pass us tightly on the starboard, just squeezing past us and the buoys.

My only guess is that they took that route b/c it was a slightly more direct line. The crew seemed to be young, and I got the sense they were coming back from a training session. Perhaps their shift was ending. There was no sense of emergency, and indeed we saw the crew casually disembarking once we made it into port.

I guess I should have pursued it, but quite frankly we had more pressing issues to deal with (engine problems). We suffered no damage, although had we not been able to get pointed into the wake, well ... who knows.
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Old 30-01-2015, 19:53   #53
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Re: My misguided faith

Ya, what gave it away that it was CCG and not USCG was you were on your 4th of five great lakes. Meaning you hung a left out of the Detroit River. So 95% chance you were in Canadian waters (unless you like doing things the hard way, but I've read enough of your posts to suspect you can find the shortest distance between two places). Odds are you're exactly right, returning from training or a SAR call (no rush when you're returning).

Sounds like you were going into the marina east of town, pretty exposed out there. They were likely just being thoughtless, not malicious. As you know, there is a nasty shoal to the immediate south of the channel, so they should have throttled down, passed then throttled back up. Those 47's kick a nasty wake too.

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Old 30-01-2015, 20:37   #54
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Re: My misguided faith

Good point, Mike.

Seems to me this "proves" that licensing won't help.

The folks who like licensing are the same crowd that rails against govt regulations.

Hmmm...

Quote:
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What do you do when the offender is the Coast Guard?

We had a few jerks last season as we sailed through four of the five Great Lakes, but the most galling event happened as we were sailing into a port on Lake Erie. We were ghosting along at a couple of knots, and were sailing close of the marked channel so as to give lots of space to other who were going faster.

Out of the distance we see this fast moving CCG cutter, roaring along on a course that would take them between us and the bouys. It's the CG, so I don't give it a lot of thought. I assume they will divert as they closer -- but no! They cut between us and the narrow space between markers, throwing a huge wake and forcing us to rapidly round up to face their wave.

So ... who do I report this to?
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Old 30-01-2015, 21:54   #55
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Re: My misguided faith

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I keep a sack of potatoes by the companionway in certain anchorages.

Kaiteriteri, Okahu Bay, anywhere around Waiheke, Nelson Harbourmaster...


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Potato gun? mine will toss a spud about 150 yards.
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Old 31-01-2015, 00:12   #56
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Re: My misguided faith

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Potato gun? mine will toss a spud about 150 yards.

I want to build one of these using LPG ignited by a spark plug in a 6" cannon.

One plan is to load it with dirt-clods packed with seeds and launch it from a couple of miles offshore. I think it would work well for re-propagating native trees on dairy farms but the possibilities are broad...


Peace.
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Old 31-01-2015, 02:36   #57
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Re: My misguided faith

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Yep. The Internet is a great thing because many of us would never hear from these nut cases otherwise.
yes, some wonderful ideas

It brings out the righteousness of many, even peace loving sailors

The real lesson here, as a few have actually suggested, it to know where to anchor and if it doesn't work out, move.

Leave revenge to the nut cases.
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Old 31-01-2015, 08:21   #58
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Re: My misguided faith

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Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
Sounds like you were going into the marina east of town, pretty exposed out there. They were likely just being thoughtless, not malicious. As you know, there is a nasty shoal to the immediate south of the channel, so they should have throttled down, passed then throttled back up. Those 47's kick a nasty wake too.
Exactly right FV. No malicious intent at all. In fact, I think we even got a friendly wave from some of the crew as they roared past us within a couple of boat lengths.

I actually think that most (not all) of these situations are perpetrated by thoughtless and/or ignorant people, not malicious folk. That doesn't excuse their actions, but I don't think pelting them with paintballs will actually solve this problem. It might make me feel better, but I doubt it will change their actions.

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Good point, Mike. Seems to me this "proves" that licensing won't help. The folks who like licensing are the same crowd that rails against govt regulations. Hmmm...
I'm not in favour of useless rules, regs and licensing (like the our Pleasure Craft License), but I'm not philosophically opposed to effective and targeted legal actions. However, I believe (without actual imperial evidence) that the reason we see more of these events is b/c we're living in an increasingly ME-ME-ME world. 'My boat. My right to go fast. My right to blast my stereo or to run my generator. My right...'. You have to have your head pretty far up your own @ss to not care how your actions impact others. But that is increasingly the world we live in (at least here in North America). Laws can't help this. A change in social attitudes might.

... Or maybe I'll just get myself a paintball gun .
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Old 31-01-2015, 08:53   #59
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Re: My misguided faith

Target...

Sundowner looked pretty sweet when I saw her a couple years ago.... Glad she's been fitted up and you guys are finally off !!!

Have Fun, and...

Keep on Postin' !!!
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Old 31-01-2015, 13:41   #60
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Re: My misguided faith

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Originally Posted by oldcal46skipper View Post
If possible, I take a photo with wake, boat name and registration. Then I get on VHF and address the wakemaker, notifying I have his photo disobeying the rules and I will be forwarding it to all boat insurance companies.


I have several USCGA reports of liability for damage a wake causes that relate, you are liable for any damage your boat causes.


Pray for the "Wakemaker" for he knoweth not his father.


Tom Vandiver, Cal 46 Satori
Old Cal's is the best response and the best attitude was expressed by rwidman's previous comment. Many years ago on Lake Michigan, we were flying our spinnaker on our previous 25 footer in lumpy seas and were passed less than 20 feet by a 45-50 foot Searay motoring at 30 knots on autopilot. We were forced to jibe the boat immediately to avoid the full impact of the wake/damage. We immediately called the CG on the VHF and reported the incident. He was arrested at the next port(20 miles) by the local marine patrol before being handed over to the CG. We did not have to testify. Others have mentioned physical retribution. This is a bad idea. In today's world, you may encounter a person/group who has the ability to negatively and irreversibly change your life forever. Unless cornered with no options, let the authorities handle it. . . unless your last name happens to be Schwarzenegger . . . he always wins. . . "Hasta la vista, baby!"
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