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Old 16-10-2011, 22:36   #1
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Marine Truth

This is a continuation of a discussion in the thread about inexperienced people giving their opinion.
I think we have established that there is both truth and falsehoods running around on the internet. How do you tell the difference? How do you research a topic- say you want to buy a new engine for your boat. Who do you trust? How do you get the best value for your money? How do you discover the blowhards- that sit behind their desk everyday and do not have a clue what is right, yet have read enough that they can talk the talk but not walk the walk.
Unfortunately, I have had quite a bit of experience with these type of people this summer. But I want to hear what other people's experiences are and how they decern experience from BS.
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Old 16-10-2011, 23:19   #2
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Re: Marine Truth

I never trust anything that comes from only one source.

If I read the same information from at least 3 sources, I begin to think it may have half a grain of truth.

Have still been burnt but less often than some people.
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Old 17-10-2011, 00:03   #3
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Re: Marine Truth

Collate information from as many sources as possible, and check the information they provide against your own research, the make your own call...

At the end of all things, as the skipper of the boat the responsibility to assure safe practice is yours and yours alone.
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Old 17-10-2011, 00:10   #4
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Re: Marine Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
How do you tell the difference? How do you research a topic- say you want to buy a new engine for your boat. Who do you trust? How do you get the best value for your money? How do you discover the blowhards- that sit behind their desk everyday and do not have a clue what is right, yet have read enough that they can talk the talk but not walk the walk.
Good Questions.

One of the ways CF could improve this forum is to give its users the opportunity to anonymously 1-click vote for "good useful info" or "useless info." Then show the tally on each posting. It would be better than what is presented now. It certainly would not be foolproof. And, hopefully, it would likely cut down on the stupid off-subject postings.

I do not think that a user has the ability to validate information in a forum like this. Users in this forum can give any credentials they want and you and I have seen lots of this on this forum.

If you have a serious question that has your time and assets in the balance, do not rely on guidance from someone that you do not know.

Bill
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Old 17-10-2011, 05:12   #5
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Re: Marine Truth

I don't you can really believe anything you read on the internet if it is given the forms of opinions unless you have taken some time to learn about the issue before hand.

I look at what I read in "discussions" as possible "things I hadn't thought about" instead of as real answers.
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Old 17-10-2011, 06:11   #6
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Re: Marine Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
This is a continuation of a discussion in the thread about inexperienced people giving their opinion.
I think we have established that there is both truth and falsehoods running around on the internet. How do you tell the difference? How do you research a topic- say you want to buy a new engine for your boat. Who do you trust? How do you get the best value for your money? How do you discover the blowhards- that sit behind their desk everyday and do not have a clue what is right, yet have read enough that they can talk the talk but not walk the walk.
Unfortunately, I have had quite a bit of experience with these type of people this summer. But I want to hear what other people's experiences are and how they decern experience from BS.

I haven't detected a lot of "blow-harding" here, one reason I value this place. I've experienced it a lot in real life. I think the important question to ask is "Why?" You may get the same advice from a variety of people, all of whom have different answers to "why?"

Recently I heard people who haven't sailed our instructional boats say with great confidence that if the winds pick up, to just sail them with either headsail only or mainsail only (they can't be reefed). Both are really bad ideas FOR THOSE BOATS. My boat sails pretty well with the headsail, and if one of those rare, Dacron-Eating Seagulls attacked my mainsail I could get back to shore with the headsail. But it's a really bad idea on those little instructional boats.

The point being, the people giving that advice were not familiar with those boats. So I asked "why" and got answers that boiled down to "well, it's been done on other boats ..." or equally vague replies.
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Old 17-10-2011, 06:17   #7
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Re: Marine Truth

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Originally Posted by svBeBe View Post
Good Questions.

One of the ways CF could improve this forum is to give its users the opportunity to anonymously 1-click vote for "good useful info" or "useless info." Then show the tally on each posting. It would be better than what is presented now. It certainly would not be foolproof. And, hopefully, it would likely cut down on the stupid off-subject postings.

I do not think that a user has the ability to validate information in a forum like this. Users in this forum can give any credentials they want and you and I have seen lots of this on this forum.

If you have a serious question that has your time and assets in the balance, do not rely on guidance from someone that you do not know.

Bill

Actually the votes wouldn't influence me at all. I've seen large numbers of people wrong about a variety of things, including the need for a halyard restraint on a roller furler. The only way to know is to talk to as many people as possible and double-check the information every way possible.

I think it's important to know who you're getting advice from. The fellow who insisted I "need" 30 hp to replace my 13 HP pooh-poohed important advice about how to secure his continuous-line roller furler and lost not one but TWO headsails within six months. I overheard this, and having the same type of furler, changed how I tie it off when not sailing. it has a continuous line. When I'm in for the day or at the dock, i wrap one line clockwise around the headsail and the other one counter clockwise. It's not that much trouble.
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Old 17-10-2011, 06:21   #8
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Re: Marine Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by svBeBe View Post
One of the ways CF could improve this forum is to give its users the opportunity to anonymously 1-click vote for "good useful info" or "useless info." Then show the tally on each posting...
The “Blue Bar”, just under the “Post Reply” icon at the top of a thread, has a “Rate This Thread” button; wherein participants can vote for the value of the thread.
However, I don't see where the results are indicated.
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Old 17-10-2011, 06:25   #9
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Re: Marine Truth

If in doubt, ask a teenager. Apparently they know ALL the answers to everything. (At least mine thinks he does.)

On a more serious note, when it comes to a forum like this, take everything as someone else's opinion. It may be good. It may not. I have read many things here that have made me think about something, but nothing that has convinced me it's fact.

My problem would be when the advice/info you get is from a so-called professional who you would normally trust. How many times has a dealer, who knows a product backwards, given information that is total garbage?
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Old 17-10-2011, 06:28   #10
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Re: Marine Truth

I have to agree with those who say we really don't have that many blow-hards on this forum. Certainly not as many as on most of the other forums that I visit.

Generally, here, if someone gives patently bad information they are quickly corrected--usually by multiple people. That makes it pretty easy to tell what is valuable information and what is not.

In the end, this is a public forum, and when you invite the public in you are ALWAYS going to end up with a few people who like to play the role of "know-it-all," but who, in reality, know practically nothing. That's not such a bad thing. It just means that you have to practice a little bit of discrimination regarding what and who you believe. I firmly believe that any attempt to make this a private forum, where only people who's opinions have been vetted and found to be qualified are allowed, would absolutely destroy the value of the forum, mainly because it would DRASTICALLY reduce the level of participation.
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Old 17-10-2011, 06:36   #11
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Re: Marine Truth

I think the 'variety of sources' answer is as good as it gets. Forums are generally not the best source of factual information. But, they are a good place to get opinions, and maybe a little direction, and then go from there. Narrowing things down to the smallest, most specific, questions will reveal a lot more through google.

In the example of buying a new engine, you could easily find out which engines fit you're boat first (drop in replacements) through google, then ask opinions on those specific engines. You'll certainly find a person or two that has one on a forum like this. then you can narrow it down based on the pros-cons of each, and start googling more specific questions. Then take it to the manufacturers and see what each of them think. Then ask a good mechanic who maybe was recommended to you on a forum, etc.. etc..

The idea is doing real research, instead of just trusting any person, or any single source of information.
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Old 17-10-2011, 07:25   #12
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Re: Marine Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I think the 'variety of sources' answer is as good as it gets. Forums are generally not the best source of factual information. But, they are a good place to get opinions, and maybe a little direction, and then go from there. Narrowing things down to the smallest, most specific, questions will reveal a lot more through google.

In the example of buying a new engine, you could easily find out which engines fit you're boat first (drop in replacements) through google, then ask opinions on those specific engines. You'll certainly find a person or two that has one on a forum like this. then you can narrow it down based on the pros-cons of each, and start googling more specific questions. Then take it to the manufacturers and see what each of them think. Then ask a good mechanic who maybe was recommended to you on a forum, etc.. etc..

The idea is doing real research, instead of just trusting any person, or any single source of information.
+1

and with the example above, the OP will have folk who swear by certain makers and others who swear at them

Who is right? probably both.........


Internet is great for learning the right questions - real life better for answers.........if not willing to "give it a go" by DIY - and on some things the taking a DIY Punt would be daft (dependent on skill set / cash / consequences)........then of course you are in the realms of dealing with (and paying!) a Marine Proffessional (which is Latin for "willing to give it a go" ).
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Old 17-10-2011, 11:30   #13
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Re: Marine Truth

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Originally Posted by pillum View Post
Collate information from as many sources as possible, and check the information they provide against your own research, the make your own call...

At the end of all things, as the skipper of the boat the responsibility to assure safe practice is yours and yours alone.
This seems to be the theme and it is generally good advice. I tend to rank the highest advice owners of boats/former owners and long history of reliable rants. I also rank websites in specific areas- with the Valiant Owners Group ranked higher for Valiant specific questions for example. It is not that everyone can have a good idea, it is just that certain people take questions more seriously.
What is CF good for? Unusal ways of looking at a problem and local knowledge. All with a grain of salt. I have picked up some good crew here, or confirmation of what I already thought was right, but what is said here is not gospel.
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Old 19-10-2011, 11:46   #14
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Re: Marine Truth

I did most of the research for our cruising prep and when I read threads I tried to treat them like a brainstorming session or some other stream-of-consciousness-no-filter production. Most of the ideas or statements were not relevant or not possible, but you can filter through for the nuggets of good info that you wouldn't have thought of on your own.

For my own personal needs, I valued info from people who were already cruising above all others.

I also assumde most people were skimming (so they will miss details of your original post and possibly give you wrong info because of it) and remembered not to get too huffy about the quality of the free advice I was getting.

If someone seemed knowledgeable and was being very helpful, I worked the PMs. Reached out to them directly.
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Old 19-10-2011, 11:53   #15
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Re: Marine Truth

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Originally Posted by Johnathon123 View Post
I never trust anything that comes from only one source.

If I read the same information from at least 3 sources, I begin to think it may have half a grain of truth.

Have still been burnt but less often than some people.
This is good advice. Keep looking and researching, if there are issues, the thread of truth will usually come out, but it may be buried in other comments. Keep in mind that negative experiences probably get posted a lot more than positive.... so you need to put it in your context/situation.
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