Loss of 'Moonduster'

[Seahunter]

Bummer, I know the feeling, seeing your hull full of sand and realizing, bilge pumps are just not going to work. But lessons learned, two hooks are better than one.

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by Highlander40

How about 300% stretch with the ability to do it all over and over untill the storm is past? The answer is polyurethane elastic mooring pendants that have weathered big storms........

These things are used to secure moorings with little scope and high surviveability in storms......

The total lack of information about this technology in the cruising world just blows me away.

Do you have more info? a link perhaps?

I can't quite grasp what you are describing

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by bewitched

Do you have more info? a link perhaps?

I can't quite grasp what you are describing

Hi bewitched,

I think this is what Highlander is talking about Hazelett Marine: Elastic Mooring System

A little bit of thought would be needed applying it to Anchoring i would think....

[Ram]

I just spent the last 2 hours reading all of the posts on this subject by Moonduster on the sailing anarchy fourm -link posted earler Thanks IslandHopper


There is food for thought there and im doing a few changes based on what i read

[Highlander40]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Hi bewitched,

I think this is what Highlander is talking about Hazelett Marine: Elastic Mooring System

A little bit of thought would be needed applying it to Anchoring i would think....

Yes, thats it! They made an anchor snubber to fit my boat. Complete with eye splices and a thimble, all I had to do was fit a shackle and chain hook.

The one I have is shorter than the mooring units, 3' vs 6' but even though it works well for our use, (usually less than 40kts) I am thinking about a 6 footer for the future storm.

The great thing about the system is the way the "spring" acts. The polyurethane is a "dead spring" It lowers the shock loads to the point where you can't feel the point of reversal when the boat swings. Given the chance, my boat will swing faster than any sailboat and it's impossible to sleep.

Anyway, the guys at Hazelett will help you out, I am just a customer and can see the safety benefits that the product gives.

Shock loads are the prime cause of failure in mooring/anchor systems.

I don't want to beat up on Wayne. The discussion we have here may save another boat someday.

[btrayfors]

Just ordered the Lewmar Deluxe Heavy Duty Chain Stopper for 3/8" chain. Good price from West Marine, believe it or not:
West Marine: Chain Stoppers Product Display

OOPS....not so great a price. The models are mixed up on the West Marine website. The 3/8" model (66840079) is $134.99 not $30.49. All the descriptions are mixed up. Wouldn't have known this if I hadn't checked the Lewmar model numbers separately. West Marine says they're fixing the site.

Still, cheap insurance, even at $135 IMHO.

Bill

[s/v Beth]

How much are the mooring rubber bands?
It looks like another fun toy (no I mean indispensable item) that my boat needs.

[Seahunter]

First of all you don't leave your chain hooked to the windlass while anchored; secondly you DON'T want to lock it (unless it's up). Rode should be attached to your cleat(s) or Sampson post only, preferable with anchor rope, so as to allow for a little spring. In this case the minimum required might have been a tandem hookup or better a double finger set at 35degrees.

[Highlander40]

Newt, Yeah they are fancy rubber bands. The 3' anchor snubber all rigged up was about 500 bucks. But you should expect a 20 year life. Not to mention fewer lost boats.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

First of all you don't leave your chain hooked to the windlass while anchored; secondly you DON'T want to lock it (unless it's up). Rode should be attached to your cleat(s) or Sampson post only, preferable with anchor rope, so as to allow for a little spring. In this case the minimum required might have been a tandem hookup or better a double finger set at 35degrees.

My heavy weather setup on our previous 40ft steel Spray

1. My chain was always resting on the windlass.
2. My chain was always locked of.
3. There was no rope whatsoever in the setup.
4. I always used the maximum amount of chain available. (we had 350ft + 150ft)
5. I always used a heavy kellet setup. (home made with a plow disk and York Gym weights)

All the above equipment was oversize to the point of overkill in some instances, this worked for us in 40 knots gusting to 60+ knots on a number of occasions...

[s/v Beth]

Reading his account and his comments over on Anarchy - I think he did the best he could with what he had. I wouldn't have tried to run the reefs (to open ocean) in those conditions. I think I would have stayed with the boat after the storm and tried to salvage- but I bet his mind was just blown.
The rubber bands however, may prove useful. I currently have big rubber torpedo type things that I wrap line in and snub off. I wonder how the two compare.

[Momo]

This could have happened to anyone. Wayne's decisions weren't unreasonable; they were unfortunate. And as far as I'm concerned, Pete, your two-cents worth of post-mortem critique isn't even worth that.

[NoTies]

Originally Posted by Momo

This could have happened to anyone. Wayne's decisions weren't unreasonable; they were unfortunate. And as far as I'm concerned, Pete, your two-cents worth of post-mortem critique isn't even worth that.

OK, stay anchored on a lee shore in a cyclone and don't bother about alternatives. I might go into the salvage business, looks like there might be a living to be made there.

[captainKJ]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

First of all you don't leave your chain hooked to the windlass while anchored; secondly you DON'T want to lock it (unless it's up). Rode should be attached to your cleat(s) or Sampson post only, preferable with anchor rope, so as to allow for a little spring. In this case the minimum required might have been a tandem hookup or better a double finger set at 35degrees.

you should ALWAYS lock the chain when anchoring,,, with a cats-claw or additional locking device (possible a small second chain attached to a cleat or other fixed device,,,anchor windlass have a way of letting the chain out when 2 much of a load is put on them,,,,this is taught in basic anchoring

[Seahunter]

CaptainKJ, if you want to see your lock and winch go overboard, do that; cleats are stronger. Almost every owners manual for windlasses has a major warning and precaution, NOT to use the windlass as a tie-off point.
These quotes are directly copied from owners manuals.
Lofrans windlasses: "This product is not designed as a strong point to fasten your anchor rode. Fast the anchor rode to a strong point such as mooring cleat or similar."
Maxwell windlasses: "NEVER use the windlass or chainstopper as a mooring point."
Lewmar windlasses: " If using a rope / chain rode then the rope should be tied off to a cleat or suitable strong point."
All manufacturers recommend snubbers for all chain setups, but should be attached to a Sampson post or suitable cleat.
My question would be: If the manufactures don't think their winches are strong enough to tie off to, why do you?