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Old 15-11-2012, 16:20   #76
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

Not quite, the Southern Baptists from MS have come in to help. I know working alongside them that these folks are not here for recognition, but rather as fellow Americans to help their Countrymen get on their feet. Rebuilding is going to take a long time and the way that's handled I really don't care, union/non union. All I give a damn about right now is helping people prepare for a cold Winter that has already dropped snow on us.

For the record I lived in Stuart FL in 2004 and lost 90% of my own belongings in Hurricane Francis and Jeanne that taught me humility. It's my turn now to help as many folks as I can every day until there is no need.

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This has happened already, a church group from here (Michigan) has been told Union only.
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Old 15-11-2012, 16:41   #77
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

Capt Mike, I went up to the top of MT Mitchell NJ(the rest of you google it) the day before Sandy hit and the wind was coming up the face at a steady 50mph! I went back up 4 days after Sandy and it was so calm it was surreal. Looking over to Sandy Hook one could see the devastation from the Hurricane.

Gas stations in NJ are going to be required to install backup generators from what I heard to prevent the gas line issues. Folks went to 'odd/even' license plate number lines on alternate days and after a week there were no gas lines or hassles getting gas for vehicles.

I had someone come in from the other side of Philly with a truckload of 1lb propane cylinders for me, 2 pallet loads to be exact. I used some for my own house to heat with a Big Buddy, that kept the house comfortable at 65 for the 2 weeks we did not have power. BUY a Big Buddy Propane Heater if you live anywhere near a disaster zone folks! Get the one that takes 2) 1lb propane cylinders if you have a big house. The single 1lb propane unit would keep a small apartment warm fine IMO.

The rest I gave out to folks who needed them for stoves, lanterns, or heaters.

Where's you boat now? Oh, and watch out for all those floating garbage dumpsters in the Navesink River and around Sandy Hook!

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Newt:

Two weeks after the storm hit I have began to look at some of the lessons learned now that things are returning back to normal:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: LESSONS LEARNED FROM HURRICANE SANDY

1) I was finishing up a 200 mile fall cruise just before the storm hit on a Monday. On the Friday before my boat was at a marina which is rare for me as I'm usually at a mooring or anchor. I had gone through my 50 gallon water tank and switched over to the 30 gallon one during my cruise. Since it was the end of the sailing season I decided not to refill the 50 gallon tank since I felt I'd only be draining it in a few days anyway or so I thought. It would have been easy since I was at a dock with water available for a refill. I did not count on moving on board after Sandy hit. I ran out of the 30 gallon tank just as I was about to get off the boat and head home last week. Though by that time I was also at a dock which had water available. Still filling up the 50 gallon tank while I could would have been a good idea.

2) The same thing happened with fuel. I only need gasoline on board since I have electric propulsion and really only use it for my Honda 2000 generator for charging the battery banks or motoring in hybrid mode. I started out with 6 gallons on board for my fall cruise. When I arrived at the marina I had one gallon left in a jerry jug and another gallon in the generator. I only had a forty mile run to the homeport so I decided not to refill the other jerry jugs because again I knew I would be ending the season soon. I ended up motoring most of those 40 miles back to my mooring. But, still had between 1/2 and 3/4 of a gallon in the jerry jug when I got back to the mooring. Luckily, I only needed to fire up the generator once in the seven days I was on board after Sandy. Solar and my 48 volt Marine Air-x kept the batteries topped up for my needs. But, gasoline became vary scarce after Sandy because stations had no power to pump gas or they ran out. In hind sight I should have topped up the jerry jugs at the marina when I had the chance just to be sure. If I did not need them for the generator I could have just poured them into the car's gas tank after things settled down.

3) Propane was another issue. My 11 gallon tank ran out just before I was going to head out on the fall cruise. Lasted two seasons Again, since it was the end of the season I thought I'd wait until next spring to refill it and use my on board back up cooking system for the cruise. I had three small 16 oz canisters for my backup Coleman stove and went through two of them and started on the third after Sandy hit. I was thinking it might have been hard to find another canister after Sandy with millions of people having no power but, luckily I never had to check this out. So I think refilling the on board propane tank would have been a good idea even if it meant most of the propane just sitting there over the winter. Filling the tank would have also meant I would have been able to use the pressurized hot water shower on board instead of the tea kettle heated water and gallon jug routine I had to use. I did not think about that until after I started the cruise.

Anyway those are the three main things I would have done differently. I already had enough provisions on board to last the week or more. With the items I took from the home freezer I was doing fine on board food wise.
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Old 15-11-2012, 16:44   #78
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

It's nothing more than the new American victim mentality. Where if something bad happens... it's always someone else's fault and it's now the government's responsibility to come bail out their fat a$$es. Very few people except those in the mid-west and northern states seem to be prepared for emergencies or take on the clean up job themselves. I'm sick of hearing the excuses.... that's why my wife and I now go cruising, to get away from the layabout comesavemes.
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Old 15-11-2012, 16:58   #79
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

I did not have any issues with 'looting' in my area. I did hear mention of something having gone on in NJ South of me. Realize that I went a full 2 weeks with no outside comms except a landline phone. Odd, but it worked when the cell phones did not. Apparently the cell towers wer not properly prepped for the storm and the generators ran out of diesel and the towers shut down!! No power for computer, electric anything for 2 weeks. Many of the folks in my area never saw ANY coverage by the media except that which they saw with their own eyes, myself included. I've experienced enough hurricanes to have been preparing a week in advance, even to the point where I had neighbors making smart aleck remarks about 'there's a big storm coming we have to hide!'. Those were the same ones who came hat in hand to my door the morning after. No problem, I'm a sailboat cruiser and was generous to everyone except the guy with the powerboat......only kidding!

It was kind of interesting when the semi tow truck driver had to wait while I cut a 15 ft section out of 3ft diameter oak tree trunk that was lying across the road so he could get by to 'rescue' a stuck fire truck a few miles away! Then came the NG truck that had to wait while I lifted the downed powerlines with my backhoe bucket so they could get by in their new shiny cabover convoy truck. Of course when they were coming back later in the day they stopped and asked if I could let them through again Uh, ok boys, give me a minute here. (which I just saw on the road 3 days ago and it was being towed by an NG tow truck because it had broken down!!). So much for the mighty NG military help.

On a 2 mile long road with let's ballpark 500 residents, of which there had/has to be at least 100 men under 50, only 5 of us had the cojones to pull on our big boy pants and gloves and organize into a cleanup crew. The rest waited in their houses until the road was cleared and then they all came out like a hoard of mice. Yeah, they could not wait to get to Whole Foods for their lattes Kind of sad really. The 5 of us know that we're fully stacked and ready to join forces if shtf. As a matter of fact we actually had that conversation while the coffee folks drove by.

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No longer living in a City, I cannot comment on the current status of most of them. I can, however, see what's been going on in New York and New Jersey and it is clear, at least to me, that thinking one can safely rely upon the "Government" is fool's errand. One needs to be able to rely upon oneself and, at best, one's friends and neighbors. As evidenced by the looting and other behaviors in NY/NJ, it is also clear that one needs be able to defend oneself in such circumstances tho' whether many would be able to drop the hammer on someone in extremes is questionable.

For what it's worth, folks might want to take a look at the book "One Second After" by William R. Forstchen. It is a good, the somewhat frightening, but enlightening, read. It has been cited on the Floor in Congress as well as at the DoD.
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Old 15-11-2012, 17:12   #80
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

I doubt much if any of the Fema money will end up in the hands of working class folks here in NJ. Big numbers like $25 Billion are being tossed around for the Tristate area CT/NY/NJ but that's for all the govt infrastructure that got damaged IMO.

There is talk of the Barrier Islands being turned over to the National Park Service, and no homes being built on them again in NJ. I think that would be best for the long term. Kind of like Assetegue Island down in Virginia.

There are folks who got their jobs downsized or offshored, who through no fault of their own were stuck in homes that they had for sale on the Shore but were not able to sell. Now they've lost all of their possessions and their largest financial nest egg. I have compassion for the folks who were not on the dole before the storm and need help. The chronically welfare inclined need to move inland and away from the disaster area, to prevent a repeat.

My friend's 40ft sailboat was hauled and blocked and still has 3 boats on top of his in the marina 2 weeks later! The crane has not gotten to him yet so the 'authorities' won't even let him in to see it until it's blocked again. The water level was 5ft high in the first floor of my church which is 1/2 mile inland from the ocean if that gives more folks a clue as to how bad the tidal surge was in Central NJ.

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It's nothing more than the new American victim mentality. Where if something bad happens... it's always someone else's fault and it's now the government's responsibility to come bail out their fat a$$es. Very few people except those in the mid-west and northern states seem to be prepared for emergencies or take on the clean up job themselves. I'm sick of hearing the excuses.... that's why my wife and I now go cruising, to get away from the layabout comesavemes.
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Old 15-11-2012, 17:52   #81
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

Clam digger,

Thanks for your reports.

I grew up in Manahawhin, Dad was a clam digger for real. Did a bit myself as a youngster.

I'm old enough to remember the '62 March storm. This damage looks to be roughly similar.

Folks will rebuild, and forget and repeat.

In the meantime the clammers are gone, done in by pollution from too many developments. Used to be 20 or 30 on Cedar Run Crek. Now none.
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Old 15-11-2012, 18:00   #82
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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Originally Posted by Clamdigger View Post
I doubt much if any of the Fema money will end up in the hands of working class folks here in NJ. Big numbers like $25 Billion are being tossed around for the Tristate area CT/NY/NJ but that's for all the govt infrastructure that got damaged IMO.

There is talk of the Barrier Islands being turned over to the National Park Service, and no homes being built on them again in NJ. I think that would be best for the long term. Kind of like Assetegue Island down in Virginia.
When I was a boy I had an aunt that lived in New Jersey for awhile. They had a little "beach house" on Long Beach Island that was "rudimentary" to say the least. When visiting, one raised the outer walls on 3-sides which became a roof over a broad deck. Framed screens stowed in the floor rafters under the house (it was on piles about 6 feet above the surrounding dunes) were installed and the house was "done". It had a tiny kitchen area and a bathroom in the "core" and a huge stone fireplace that kind of anchored the place down. There was electricity but also oil and candle lamps. It was a great house as you could sit on the "back" porch and look over the ocean or on the front porch and look past the (dirt) road at Barnegate (Sp?) Bay. They had a little sailboat on a mooring in the bay across from them that we would take out for sails and for crabbing.

I recall once asking my aunt and uncle why they didn't fix the palce up a bit more and just live there as they liked it so much and it was such a beautiful/fun place to be. They just laughed and explained it had already been washed away 3 times, by 1955 or so. No one can live on these islands my aunt explained. They are "Barrier Islands" protecting the Bay (news to me. No Barrier Islands in California!) and its too bitter in the winter.

Maybe that thinking should be revisited?
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Old 15-11-2012, 18:16   #83
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

My Grandfather leased a farm in Barnegat Light in the late 1800's early 1900's.

For years their well pipe was visible in the inlet, or so Dad said.

Light house was over a mile from water.

In 1980's (pretty sure) they stabilized the light house to keep it from falling in. Now with the new jetties the inlet is more stable and the beach is building on the South side.

For kicks and goggles look up historic maps of Holgate, the South end of Long Beach Island. Used to be available online. They show how that inlet would move miles in a storm, used to get one big 'un every 10 years or so.

This is nothing new. People don't learn. That ain't new neither.

HyLyte, I'm betting your early 70's, no? About ten years on me. By the time I came along those places were pretty much gone. Pity. I'm just old enough to have an idea of what the area was like " back when."
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Old 15-11-2012, 19:50   #84
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

hpeer- how did your steel boats make out?
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Old 15-11-2012, 20:08   #85
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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Originally Posted by Clamdigger View Post
Capt Mike, I went up to the top of MT Mitchell NJ(the rest of you google it) the day before Sandy hit and the wind was coming up the face at a steady 50mph! I went back up 4 days after Sandy and it was so calm it was surreal. Looking over to Sandy Hook one could see the devastation from the Hurricane.

Gas stations in NJ are going to be required to install backup generators from what I heard to prevent the gas line issues. Folks went to 'odd/even' license plate number lines on alternate days and after a week there were no gas lines or hassles getting gas for vehicles.

I had someone come in from the other side of Philly with a truckload of 1lb propane cylinders for me, 2 pallet loads to be exact. I used some for my own house to heat with a Big Buddy, that kept the house comfortable at 65 for the 2 weeks we did not have power. BUY a Big Buddy Propane Heater if you live anywhere near a disaster zone folks! Get the one that takes 2) 1lb propane cylinders if you have a big house. The single 1lb propane unit would keep a small apartment warm fine IMO.

The rest I gave out to folks who needed them for stoves, lanterns, or heaters.

Where's you boat now? Oh, and watch out for all those floating garbage dumpsters in the Navesink River and around Sandy Hook!
Clamdigger:
Sounds like you acted pretty quick and got your shelter at least livable pretty quickly. I too would not wait for the government or the utility companies before trying to get things back to normal it just does not happen that fast. I felt lucky we got the power back a week after Sandy. For some they are still waiting.
My boat is on land now for the winter. It was hauled the day before the second Nor'easter hit. But, looking at the devastation around other areas I feel very lucky. Even thought the boat moved it and it's mooring over a thousand feet away and my dingy's outboard ended up in the drink I got off easy. A former coworker had his 47 foot sport fishing boat pulled the morning of Sandy in Great Kills Harbor Staten Island. They moved it into a lot across the road from the marina. The storm surge came in and he found it in the dirt of the lot props buried in the dirt. He still considers himself lucky other boats were found in the middle of the street several blocks away. There are several new inlets on Long Islands south shore barrier islands. They are still trying to get plans underway to plug the breaches. One goes from 300 feet to 1,000 feet wide at high tide.
One advantage we cruisers have is we have already adapted to life without taken for granted amenities liked grid supplied power. At least I have. I lived on board my boat in New York City when I worked there in 1990's for six years. I also have moved some of the technologies I used on board into my house. For example I have a whole house LED light system lighting up every room and recharged by some solar panels I did no longer needed on board. Neighbors thought I had power and wonder why my house was lit. Still I'm glad I had the boat to move onto after Sandy. It was easier to live and was all set up for me and was not a great hardship because I spent most of my summer and fall on board already. Those with only their house or an apartment had less options and what is in their future is unknown for many. Sad but, in the future the lessons learned may help people be better prepared. Even though I managed quite easily I still learned some things I could have done that would have made me even better prepared:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: LESSONS LEARNED FROM HURRICANE SANDY
I'm also wondering what the bottom of the waterways in and around New York/New Jersey will be like for the next couple of years. Could mean a lot of snagged anchors on debris leftover from the storm on the bottom.
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Old 15-11-2012, 20:22   #86
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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hpeer- how did your steel boats make out?
The 33 is in Newfoundland and safe.

The 44 is in the water at Delaware City. Did fine. Not much more tide than Irene and a whole lot less debris. Guess it all got flushed last year.

Many boats got hauled. Active skippers all moved our boats to the dock with the highest pilings. We tied the floating docks to trees and poles with very heavy ropes. On the canal side we set ten anchors across the canal. If the docks floated off they were not going anywhere.

In the end it was not tested. Relief!

Folks behind us rode out the storm on the boat. 70 knots with lots of current, but all ok.
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Old 15-11-2012, 20:28   #87
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

Capt Mike,

If you ever want to write up you household LED project I would love to hear it. Been thinking of something similar for different reasons myself. Like to know what kind of lamps you used etc.
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Old 16-11-2012, 01:31   #88
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

The March 62 storm was Diana (?), If I remember correctly. I lived in Clinton NJ (say 50 mile to the beach). Trees got knocked down ind the woods around the house. I can remember some pictures from the beach.

7-8 years later when I was in my late teens, I went to the beach a lot (seaside Heights, Tom's River, Sandy Hook). Don't remember seeing any leftover damage. Just goes to show how fast things can be rebuilt.
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Old 16-11-2012, 11:29   #89
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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Capt Mike,

If you ever want to write up you household LED project I would love to hear it. Been thinking of something similar for different reasons myself. Like to know what kind of lamps you used etc.
hpeer:

You got me motivated to write up a post about my system which has been operating from dusk to dawn for about two years now:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: WATTS GOING DOWN ON LAND AND SEA

NOTE: No Federal grants or taxpayer subsdies were used in the construction and installation of this system.
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Old 16-11-2012, 13:10   #90
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

Thanks!
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