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Old 08-11-2012, 10:57   #31
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
What about using a small sturdy boat tucked away somewhere as a sanctuary and (if things get really bad) as a getaway vehicle?
Living in EQ territory, that's our plan. There are tunnels and a few bridges to get onto the island where out boat is berthed. The dinghy's at home in case they are closed.
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:09   #32
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

Live somewhere else?

Although am not in a hurricane zone, it nonetheless does get a bit windy now and again. Doesn't affect most of our power lines though, as they are underground - perhaps a lesson there? (of course that might be a sign that our Govt are Communists - lol!).
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:12   #33
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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As after Hurricane Katrinia, it is now happening with the survivors of Hurricane Sandy. They are cleaning out their flooded homes and along comes the government telling them that they have to leave their homes now because of mold danger. Saltwater and sheet rock do not mix without having mold grow. I helped strip out several homes of their sheet rock and carpets, down to studs and single layer of sub-flooring inside of several homes in Mississippi after Katrinia. It is not that hard, a half dozen people willing to sweat a little can strip a house in a day. The problem of recovery is the impediments which the government places in the way. In Mississippi, they tradesmen from anywhere with a tradesman license issued by any state to work in Mississippi doing Katrinia relief. I would be surprised if the unions in NYC allow NYC to accept out of state licensed tradesmen. Also, many survivors of Katrinia were able to live in tent cities while work was done in the recovery process. This is not realistic for Sandy survivors. Soon, after power is restored, the biggest issues for flood survivors will be cleaning and stripping out their homes and then paying for the reconstruction. For the people who can get it done quickly, they can then make a nice profit flipping their own home or buying and flipping others as the demand for homes will increase the prices over the next six months.
This has happened already, a church group from here (Michigan) has been told Union only.
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Old 08-11-2012, 17:55   #34
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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Live somewhere else?

Although am not in a hurricane zone, it nonetheless does get a bit windy now and again. Doesn't affect most of our power lines though, as they are underground - perhaps a lesson there? (of course that might be a sign that our Govt are Communists - lol!).
Well that's part of the problem with this one - New York City is not supposed to be hurricane territory!

We've entered into a period of monumental Caribbean storms. I don't know if there is historical precedence for this weather in this region, but it certainly has never been like this in recent memory.
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Old 08-11-2012, 19:37   #35
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I am an artist. I did a trade show outside Manhattan in NJ. I had to have a shop steward find me a union boss so he could hire a union electrician to plug in an extension cord. I was not allowed to do it myself. Later, when I tried hooking my air hose to my air pump, I was told I would need the unions involved again. I was not allowed to plug in my own air hose.

The area has elevator operators that ask you what floor you want, and they push the buttons. A hold over from old mechanical elevators.
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Old 08-11-2012, 20:52   #36
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The Loma Prieta quake in '89 destroyed several of our friends' homes (and cars) in San Francisco, particularly in the Marina District. But not their boats, and several families ended up living on their boats for an extended period before their homes were restored. The same held true after the Northridge Quake in '94 and several folks we knew that lived in the San Fernando Valley ended up living aboard their boats in Long Beach and San Pedro for several months.
That's interesting. It's nice to know that the boats were fine in the marina district. (did I get that right?) after the Loma Prieta earthquake. We are in Marina del Rey and I am wondering about liquefaction and boats. I know the buildings may be an issue but wondered about the boats. The science articles I've read never mention them.

We have 100 gal fuel, sails when that runs out, 200 gal water, a watermaker when that runs out and enough dried/canned foods, beans,nuts (sprouts for greens) to last a few months if stretched. 4 Solar panels take care of the batteries. We done want to be one sitting & waiting for someone else to come save us.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:43   #37
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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That's interesting. It's nice to know that the boats were fine in the marina district. (did I get that right?) after the Loma Prieta earthquake. We are in Marina del Rey and I am wondering about liquefaction and boats. I know the buildings may be an issue but wondered about the boats. The science articles I've read never mention them.

We have 100 gal fuel, sails when that runs out, 200 gal water, a watermaker when that runs out and enough dried/canned foods, beans,nuts (sprouts for greens) to last a few months if stretched. 4 Solar panels take care of the batteries. We done want to be one sitting & waiting for someone else to come save us.
In San Francisco, one yacht was located at St. Frances Yacht Club while the others were at the Goldengate Yacht Club and in the City Marina off the Marina Green. In all cases the docks were floating and there was no effect on the docks or boats although some of the infrastructure was damaged. In the Northridge quake, the yachts were completely uneffected without even loss of infrastructure. In both cases the only difficulty was initially actually getting to the boats. Liquifaction was a problem in the Marina district (SF) because of the nature of the fill (rubble and rubbish overtopped with dirt, much of it from the earlier quake in '06), and many buildings did sink/collapse as a consequence. I don't think you will have any issues with the boats at Marina Del Rey, save getting there. (This may again be a case where good mountain bikes prove more useful/valuable than automobiles.)

FWIW...
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:49   #38
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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In NYC,we didn't see people lining up for fresh water. We saw them lining up to charge their cellular phones. This is their only source of electronic entertainment to fill their days until they sadly have to start paying the rent and going to work again.
When I saw that FEMA generator running with (probably) no other load than a bunch of cell phone chargers, I winced at the inefficiency factor.

0.001% maybe?
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:58   #39
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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Walk into Wal-Mart and find anything made in the USA. Anything. Doubt you could fill one shopping cart.
I guess you haven't looked very hard at some of today's most popular items and accessories in the "sporting goods" dept.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:02   #40
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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In Mississippi, they tradesmen from anywhere with a tradesman license issued by any state to work in Mississippi doing Katrinia relief. I would be surprised if the unions in NYC allow NYC to accept out of state licensed tradesmen.
It already happened.
NYC kicked out utility workers who had driven all the way there from the Gulf of Mexico (Mississippi?) because they weren't union.


Argh.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:22   #41
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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It already happened.
NYC kicked out utility workers who had driven all the way there from the Gulf of Mexico (Mississippi?) because they weren't union.


Argh.

Yeah but they were also trying to buy large soft drinks at a 7-11. Does it make sense that one can buy booze by the gal but more than a 16oz coke is illegal?
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:33   #42
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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I guess you haven't looked very hard at some of today's most popular items and accessories in the "sporting goods" dept.
After this last (last possibly being more truthful than any of us realize) tuesday, good luck finding any of that stuff legal and available in another 4 years.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:30   #43
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Move to a nice EU socialist liberal state. We allow any tradesman , ( the poles do everything ). Very rule based country the US !

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Old 09-11-2012, 19:13   #44
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Originally Posted by svHyLyte

In San Francisco, one yacht was located at St. Frances Yacht Club while the others were at the Goldengate Yacht Club and in the City Marina off the Marina Green. In all cases the docks were floating and there was no effect on the docks or boats although some of the infrastructure was damaged. In the Northridge quake, the yachts were completely uneffected without even loss of infrastructure. In both cases the only difficulty was initially actually getting to the boats. Liquifaction was a problem in the Marina district (SF) because of the nature of the fill (rubble and rubbish overtopped with dirt, much of it from the earlier quake in '06), and many buildings did sink/collapse as a consequence. I don't think you will have any issues with the boats at Marina Del Rey, save getting there. (This may again be a case where good mountain bikes prove more useful/valuable than automobiles.)

FWIW...
Thank you for the great info! Marina del Rey is also fill. They built the entire area up & studies show there will be damage to buildings here. We live-aboard so hope we will be at the boat... except when I'm at work. W have a plan to meet in case of an earthquake. . My husband will leave the marina with the boat and I will call him on a hand held SSB that I keep in the car. When we contact we will go to plan b,c or d (different meeting places based on where I can meet him- based on freeway damage. I am 3 miles down the road from the beach so could walk if no other option. Around here-gotta be prepared. Again, thanks so much!!
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:59   #45
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Re: Lessons learned in Self-suffiency. Sandy and Katrina

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I wonder if there isn't a parallel between this discussion, and past "simplicity" threads here on CF.

The problem urban dwellers face in times of crisis is that their very existence depends on a multitude of supports, most of which they have little understanding of, and small ability to control. Urban life sits on a complex, and fragile foundation. Pull a few beams out, and the whole edifice starts to crumble.

The same challenge faces us cruisers who seek the sweet spot in our choice of onboard systems and tools. If I rely on a tool that I don't understand, and have little hope of repairing or replacing, I am no more resilient than the high-rise dweller without electricity.
Quite true, but I've learned alot about systems onboard....and fixing them because nobody is out there to turn to. It can be frustrating but also enpowering,satisfaction of feeling that you can to a large degree be self sufficient.

It is true though that cruising is " repairing your boat in exotic locations" but I thrive on it!
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