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Old 31-08-2012, 10:35   #61
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I dont know whose rule that is but it's BS. Most go about 1 size over the recommendation.... except in a Bruce 2 sizes.... a 35 is very common for a 30 foot boat.

I look at the "anchor kits" they sell at West Marine, with Danforths and 10' chain, and not nearly enough rode. I just assume that at least some manufacturers/marketing departments under-recommend the amount of anchor, chain, etc. needed because people prefer to spend less if they can.
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Old 31-08-2012, 10:37   #62
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

the kind of substance one anchors one's boat into also makes a big difference---bruce is best with mud, sand with rocks. needs to be more then 2 feet deep. silt over shale -- nothing anchors into. charts tell what the bottom is -- so one can choose proper anchor accordingly.

anchor kits sold at west marine are all undersized for anything but lunch hooks and fishing anchors for short term use.
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Old 31-08-2012, 11:18   #63
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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Wow. You've got me thinking here. I have a Bruce that dragged repeatedly during a recent squall. I dragged a total of ... 500 feet! I concluded that the anchor was too small for the boat. It was a very strong squall, but I need my anchor to hold through a squall.

So I did some research and basically came up with a "1 lb./foot" recommendation from several sailors I respect. One does salvage and has a 35 lb. I can buy.

But the thing is, the Bruce *did* reset. Repeatedly (I was on the boat as it dragged). It just didn't hold after it reset. It didn't hold the first time I set it once the storm hit, although it seemed like a good setting at the time I anchored. I moved the boat backward after dropping the hook by running the engine slowly in reverse, three times, several minutes apart. It seemed solid until that squall.

That was quite a squall. There were no sails up, and yet my boat spun around the anchor -- twice. It was like being in Dorothy's house in the tornado. The chain is in two sections -- a 20' section, a swivel, and then a 10' section. The anchor actually didn't drag at that point.
Yeah, the Bruce will move along at a pretty good clip in sand for sure. Just not enough surface area I guess. I've often thought the Bruce would be a much better anchor if the shank was tilted up another 15 degrees or so, causing the surface area to offer more resistance. As Zee says, it's all about matching the anchor to t he bottom. Bruce is great in rocks. You DO use a lead line with wax in the bottom of the lead to determine the bottom condition dont you? Haha
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Old 31-08-2012, 11:43   #64
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
the kind of substance one anchors one's boat into also makes a big difference---bruce is best with mud, sand with rocks. needs to be more then 2 feet deep. silt over shale -- nothing anchors into. charts tell what the bottom is -- so one can choose proper anchor accordingly.

anchor kits sold at west marine are all undersized for anything but lunch hooks and fishing anchors for short term use.

I agree with everything you said. We dropped the hook in Miami at what looked like a great anchoring spot. We're still paying out rode when a guy in a dinghy putt-putts up, says, "Looks like a great anchoring spot, doesn't it?"

Well, yeah...

"Doncha wonder why no one else has taken it?"

Actually we had said that ...

Turns out it was about 4" of sand over coral rock. We were most grateful to the fellow.
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Old 31-08-2012, 11:46   #65
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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Yeah, the Bruce will move along at a pretty good clip in sand for sure. Just not enough surface area I guess. I've often thought the Bruce would be a much better anchor if the shank was tilted up another 15 degrees or so, causing the surface area to offer more resistance. As Zee says, it's all about matching the anchor to t he bottom. Bruce is great in rocks. You DO use a lead line with wax in the bottom of the lead to determine the bottom condition dont you? Haha

Actually, yes, I do. A zinc is perfect for that -- nice donut to tie the line through, and a place to put the wax, heavy enough to drop straight.

But that can lie to you also. Drop it in 4" of sand over coral rock and all that will come up is ... sand.

The lead line also doubles as a back up depth sounder. It's knotted every three feet.

So you don't like the Bruce for sand or silt? You prefer a CQR? I have to replace that Bruce ...
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Old 31-08-2012, 11:51   #66
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

So....if a Bruce isn't good for mud or sand, what IS it good for? What else would you anchor in?

I'm not being a smart ass, I honestly would like to know. We just bought a boat with a Bruce type anchor we've been using so far. We also have a Danforth and a Fortress. And a nice grapple. But the Bruce seems to work fine.
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Old 31-08-2012, 17:17   #67
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

Find your self some very clear water, Drop your anchor where you can see it on the bottom, Drive backwards and set it,

Then still driving backwards, with the anchor chain tite, swing your boat around 180 degrees,
Same as swinging on the tide, and see if your anchor resets itself, do it a couple of times,

Then you will know if your anchor will or wont reset itself, Piece of mind if it resets every time,
Change your anchor if it dont,
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Old 31-08-2012, 17:40   #68
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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So....if a Bruce isn't good for mud or sand, what IS it good for? What else would you anchor in?

I'm not being a smart ass, I honestly would like to know. We just bought a boat with a Bruce type anchor we've been using so far. We also have a Danforth and a Fortress. And a nice grapple. But the Bruce seems to work fine.

I honestly think it would be fine in sand if big enough. It can be REALLY hard to pull up -- I've had to rig a way to bring the anchor rode back to my cockpit when I'm soloing so I can drive over it without propping the rode. It released in a fierce squall, but only after holding when the boat 360'd -- twice.

I just think a 22 lb. Bruce is too small for strong storms on my 31' boat.
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Old 31-08-2012, 17:45   #69
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
So....if a Bruce isn't good for mud or sand, what IS it good for? What else would you anchor in?

I'm not being a smart ass, I honestly would like to know. We just bought a boat with a Bruce type anchor we've been using so far. We also have a Danforth and a Fortress. And a nice grapple. But the Bruce seems to work fine.
I love my 33 lb Bruce here in the northeast U.S. Holds my 8 ton 30 foot boat fine. Even during Hurricane Earl two years ago had 90 feet of chain on the Bruce and two Danforths on deck ready to go in case the boat started to drag. Never moved an inch. Never felt the need to change it since I bought the boat in 1995.
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Old 31-08-2012, 17:55   #70
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

I've been extremely pleased with a 10kg Lewmar Claw (Bruce copy) here in the Gulf Islands. The Danforth that came with our boat has been pretty useless as it always fouls with seaweed before biting in. Haven't dragged at all with the claw. Our boat is only 25ft and pretty light displacement though.

Ganges Harbour is not a favourite anchorage though. Ganges the town is great, but the harbour is not ideal for anchoring for a number of reasons that have all been mentioned already. When we do stay there we go in Madrona Bay on the other side of Goat Is.
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Old 31-08-2012, 18:23   #71
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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I love my 33 lb Bruce here in the northeast U.S. Holds my 8 ton 30 foot boat fine. Even during Hurricane Earl two years ago had 90 feet of chain on the Bruce and two Danforths on deck ready to go in case the boat started to drag. Never moved an inch. Never felt the need to change it since I bought the boat in 1995.

What kind of bottom do you typically anchor into?
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Old 31-08-2012, 18:31   #72
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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What kind of bottom do you typically anchor into?
Usually mud but, it can vary to include some sand and rocks depending on the location. Like it when it does as there is no need for the washdown.
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Old 31-08-2012, 18:32   #73
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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I honestly think it would be fine in sand if big enough. It can be REALLY hard to pull up -- ......

I just think a 22 lb. Bruce is too small for strong storms on my 31' boat.
I'd agree with that. I reckon that's a good size - assuming a genuine Bruce - for a 23', 2300kg offshore yacht (with a tall rig) anchoring in 'interesting' places and windstrengths, over a variety of bottoms. I base this on the experience of several savvy skippers over 20 years on this boat.

The anchor is shackled to 10m of 3/8" shortlink chain, then 50m of 5/16" ditto. This relatively heavy shot of chain next to the anchor makes a big difference in deep anchorages but is little help when it's shallow.

The only conditions it ever dragged (at the modest rate of 6 ft in 24 hrs) were VERY shallow water (it's a lift keeler, only draws 0.65m with everything up) and greasy mud in a prolonged blow. (in a confined anchorage where it was not possible to go for really long scope)

You could make a case for anchor weight going up with the cube of boat length. Certainly it should be (to my way of thinking) in proportion to the weight of the boat, assuming similar proportions of rig and hull.

The former, rather simplistic measure would suggest over 50lb for a Bruce to deliver the equivalent (adequate, but not overly so) performance for a 31' sailboat.
I think that's overkill, but 44lb would be good in challenging conditions, methinks.

I don't understand the vocal few who claim Bruce anchors do not reset, almost the exact opposite to my experience. Given that genuine Bruce are not made now, maybe some are copies?
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Old 31-08-2012, 19:49   #74
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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I'd agree with that. I reckon that's a good size - assuming a genuine Bruce - for a 23', 2300kg offshore yacht (with a tall rig) anchoring in 'interesting' places and windstrengths, over a variety of bottoms. I base this on the experience of several savvy skippers over 20 years on this boat.

The anchor is shackled to 10m of 3/8" shortlink chain, then 50m of 5/16" ditto. This relatively heavy shot of chain next to the anchor makes a big difference in deep anchorages but is little help when it's shallow.

The only conditions it ever dragged (at the modest rate of 6 ft in 24 hrs) were VERY shallow water (it's a lift keeler, only draws 0.65m with everything up) and greasy mud in a prolonged blow. (in a confined anchorage where it was not possible to go for really long scope)

You could make a case for anchor weight going up with the cube of boat length. Certainly it should be (to my way of thinking) in proportion to the weight of the boat, assuming similar proportions of rig and hull.

The former, rather simplistic measure would suggest over 50lb for a Bruce to deliver the equivalent (adequate, but not overly so) performance for a 31' sailboat.
I think that's overkill, but 44lb would be good in challenging conditions, methinks.

I don't understand the vocal few who claim Bruce anchors do not reset, almost the exact opposite to my experience. Given that genuine Bruce are not made now, maybe some are copies?

I know that mine is a genuine Bruce. So I'm thinking when I replace it, I'll sell this one. I have a Danforth for my second anchor, for a "lunch hook." Not as heavy, since I'm the one pulling it up most of the time, female (just not as "beefy") and I'm 66, that's worth thinking about for temporary anchors.

Do you have any idea what a fair market price for the three sizes -- 22, 33, and 44 -- would be, given that they are no longer made?

I have to say that it was quite bizarre to wake up to the boat rotating 360 degrees. I was very familiar with the area and know what I saw from the cabin windows and was in the cockpit for most of the second spin, amazed. No waterspouts were visible.
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:27   #75
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

with my 28000 pound ketch, a 30 kilogram original bruce is perfect in sandy rocks. stuck nicely despite 360 daily for over one month. no drag.
manatee river mouth was mud and we used a cqr--original-- without problems--we noticed EVERYBODY dragged in st pete's vinoy basin---bottom is silt over shale. we were fortunate to have been collected by the little church on the bay....very exciting anchorage in summer....
my garmin tells what is on bottom and so do charts. if no info--needs a test with a lead line tool.

if the sand is deep enough the bruce will be fine.
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