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Old 26-06-2012, 16:27   #16
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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The holding in Ganges bay is known to be poor.
+1

I will not anchor there. I have seen too boats many drag in Ganges. It is far too crowded to get sufficient scope. And the wind will build quite dramatically with a guaranteed 180 wind shift.
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Old 26-06-2012, 16:33   #17
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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The holding in Ganges bay is known to be poor.Quite often in the afternoon the wind comes up from south,funneling right into bay.I run a 50 lb. Manson plow on all 5/16" chain, always let out at least 100 ft., even in 20 ft. of water.Anchor has never dragged.When setting,always best to give anchor a minute or two to sink into mud before backing down hard.My Bruce anchor was brutal to get it to stick.
The more I read, the more I like the sounds of switching to a Manson Supreme. Just not sure if it will go through the bow roller's bail....but I think I could just manufacture a bit larger one.
Highseas - how do you attach the anchor to your chain? Simple shackle? Or do you employ a swivel as well?
Thx!
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Old 26-06-2012, 16:41   #18
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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+1

I will not anchor there. I have seen too boats many drag in Ganges. It is far too crowded to get sufficient scope. And the wind will build quite dramatically with a guaranteed 180 wind shift.
Yes, I'm definitely there now too! At least for Ganges. I typically shy away from the docks though. For me it is a minimum $50, plus I always seem to end up beside the jack*ss who wants to party all night. I much prefer the quiet...and the use of that $50 toward a boat toy. (Such as in this case - a better anchor)

While I was talking to the Vessel Assist guy we saw another boat begin to drag across the bay. That one did catch again, but as it was - I think V.A. had a VERY busy night....
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Old 26-06-2012, 16:43   #19
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

Haha....and when I REALLY think about it.......I broke the ship's mirror while wiping it down last week.

Now it alllll makes sense!
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Old 26-06-2012, 16:58   #20
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

I use a large stainless shackle and swivel,but am thinking it should be galvanized.Contemplating corrosion/oxygen deficit issues, I should be using a Crosby shackle with galvanized swivel.
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Old 26-06-2012, 17:05   #21
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I have wrapped a chain around a Bruce. I think I anchored proper but it did snarl. It came off the bottom tangled and must have reduced scope. Did not drag though. Still it could happen. Couple weekends back I helped get a boat off the navy breakwater in Annapolis. Wind was more then forecast holding in the area is sketchy. seen a few boats do the same n that spot.
Interesting the water taxi dropped the owners on the boat while it was doing a nasty bounce off the rocks. That was a skilled maneuver but the taxi would not assist with the tow. A small ski boat had stopped and a actually got his wife aboard. No one had a line longer then 15 feet if that. So getting the line to the boats was difficult
. I didn't see the harbormaster or sea tow. Later another boat was dragging and I called the harbormaster. At the last moment the owners were roused. I thought they were not aboard as there was no dinghy seen. Perhaps our lights flashing on there decks roused them. Just a reminder that things are different on the water. I didn't expect the harbormaster to come out. I do wonder why there are such concerns if public vehicles taking control of boats that are near wreck. If a house is almost on fire the dire department comes. If a boat is smashing into a breakwater there is no response. In some ways that's good. It keeps us looking out in another it is very odd.
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Old 26-06-2012, 17:17   #22
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

Knowing the nw forecast lately, you should never have anchored on 3:1 scope to start with. The bruce is a good rock anchor, but drags very easily in a gust. I know there are bruce advocates here, but ive seen it many times first hand. Regardless, wind shifts are an issue no doubt. Why is it this crap happens with guests aboard!!! Especially the in laws. Ive got a similar inlaws story, too long to tell.
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Old 26-06-2012, 17:37   #23
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

Slightly off topic,anyone had any experience with the Acco galvanized chain swivel?rated for 3900lb. I'm a swivel guy.
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Old 26-06-2012, 18:18   #24
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

A bruce is an all round bad anchor in my opinion and fared very poorly in the practical sailor/Yachting world tests. I used to have one and found it tends to lie on one fluke and rarely gets a good grip.

Also you didn't have enough scope, Hinz's tome on a choring recommends upto 10:1 scope in shallow waters to maintain catenary.

Thirdly , leaving your boat in a squall, was this wise??

Dave
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Old 26-06-2012, 18:33   #25
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

It is soooo easy to say "I would put out at least a scope of 7..." but why stop there? "Hey I might be better off with a scope of 12!!!"

IN YOUR DREAMS!!!! Here in crowded Massachusetts one is lucky if he can find a place to get out a 5 scope without risking banging into others. And of course there are the late comers who don't give a d a m n about what YOU might like, they are dropping some POS anchor right next to you. And finally there is the guy who has no idea how much scope YOU have out but he has determined it is safe to drop his anchor inches off your stern.

There is only one way I know of to anchor safely with large scopes and not be bothering anybody but personally I have my boat in storage during the winter.

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Old 26-06-2012, 18:34   #26
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

Show me a Bruce that doesn't perform well and I'll show you a cheap knock-off contraption that they dare call a Bruce.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 26-06-2012, 19:02   #27
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I'll add that my Bruce is exceptional given good technique, some places are bad. The Annapolis navy restricted anchorage has hard pan in random areas. A phenomenon I have seen is boats anchored here and hold well only later to drag across the entire anchorage. Never fetching up. Could be a scope issue. Danforth and cqr are prone to this in this particular spot. Spade Bruce and Manson seem to do better.maybe owners of the later anchor better. One boat went by and a near 12 year old was sitting on deck. I say do you know you are dragging. Dad he looks below we're dragging. Let out more line. They dragged way out into the channel before the hung over elder got up and did something.
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Old 26-06-2012, 21:04   #28
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

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The sad part of this story is that anchorages are these days so congested that one feels obliged to anchor to suit the over population rather than the seamanlike necessity. This ratio thing is a heap of manure. 3:1 / 5:1 / Fiddlesticks. Here's another rule of thumb, ; 1lb of anchor per ft of boat length, Then minimum 60ft of short link chain regardless of depth then nylon rode of the water depth so that the rode is not sweeping across the bottom.
Better tune your rule of thumb to the boat. We are 58 feet and 55,000 disp. Manson and Rocna both recommend anchors closer to 2 to 3 #/ft. My CQR 75 # is woefully too small. We carry 310 feet of 7/16 BBB. New anchor in the plan.
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Old 26-06-2012, 21:24   #29
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I think size and weight of chain also plays a role here. We have heavier chain on our boat than most similar sized cats, we have a size up on the anchor too ... We usually set the anchor on a pay out ratio of 7:1 (height from chain furler) and then reel back up to 4:1 before backing down with the engines. This way the anchor gets a chance to dig without effort and we get to be in a good spot in smaller anchorages or up close to the beach.
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Old 26-06-2012, 21:29   #30
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Re: Lesson Learned: When a Squall Comes Into an Anchorage

I'm no expert, but I don't think the scope was the issue. Considering the multitude of other boats in the anchorage with similar scope. I find it very hard to believe that 4 more feet of scope would prevent the boat from dragging across the entire anchorage....

Sounds more like a fouled anchor, wind/current shift 180 degrees, boat drifts over anchor pulling it out (the OP's original conclusion, except it didn't matter that he let out more scope), anchor doesn't reset itself. Sounds very typical to me.
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