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Old 20-02-2014, 10:32   #16
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Re: I give up!

I find this post so sad. It's not hard to make sure your rig, hull, and sails are sound. Put some thought into your ground takle, and go.
The "American" concept of a "cruising" boat has been so polluted by sailing magazines and mega-boating outlets that most people have absolutely no clue of what a cruising boat is.
It's not about the boat, it's about your dreams, and abandoning your dreams is, well, quite unfortunate. I deal with people's cruising projects every day and every time I see someone give up it rings sadness in my heart.
Retink what you need to do on your boat and what is really important.

Peace

Sail far and live slowly.
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Old 20-02-2014, 12:28   #17
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Re: I give up!

Bluesphere has it right, and I have been following his blog a long time. Perhaps you should visit his website, and you will see and read of the hardships and perseverance he displayed that brought him to his present, full and enriched life. Read from the beginning, I implore you, he is an inspiration to all dreamers that want to be doers
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Old 20-02-2014, 13:05   #18
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Re: I give up!

Julian55, thanks for the kind words.

Unplugging and voyaging to the sea is the easy part. The hard part is battling a lifetime of programming and psychologically pulling the trigger on a new way of life. We voyage on under 8 grand a year. And I only paid 15k for my beautiful "Splendid" which fills my plate with freedom every day.

Sorry for the tough love, but I you cant find the strength to set your dreams in motion, perhaps you should give up? "Paradise" is a state of mind and resurved for the men who take it.

Think about the boat hard. You dont need crap like AIS and if your short handed get a good windvane and attach a small tiller pilot to it for light wind or motoring days.

Just a thought?

Peace.
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Old 20-02-2014, 13:09   #19
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Re: I give up!

If you or anyone needs any advice or guidence just ask. I dont often visit cruiser forms but one of my readers sent me this link. Perhaps you just need someone to throw you a line?

Cheers
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Old 20-02-2014, 13:27   #20
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Re: I give up!

I couldn't find the blog Julian55 was talking about so I looked it up and watched the first film! Great story Alex!

For anyone else that's interested here is his blog/film page. It's perfect for all us wannabe cruisers:

Project BlueSphere - A solo circumnavigation & video documentation of the globe
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Old 20-02-2014, 13:32   #21
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Re: I give up!

Myself and many others have tried to confront this dilemma when a question is asked by a newbie " should I buy this boat?" or "free boat.. how can I lose?" etc. Often we get the usual "dont be a naysayer" reaction from other forum members. It takes a special person/perseverence/$ to build a boat from a hull and deck sucessfully. And many project boats are near that. Often I have said; "buy a boat you can use now and work overtime to pay the extra". Or; "Buy a Catalina or boat easily resold and learn first". Many people start a project and dont really know if they like cruising!
Essentially you can get a free boat with a running engine and sails, and still spend $100k fixing it up! It depends on your intended use and your tolerance for things not being right. One example would be wet deck core or wet rudder core. My guess is that 80% of the boats out there that are ...hmmm... lets say 10 years old or older, have this issue. Does it matter? maybe not. If you are local sailing... go sailing.

I almost bought a Celestial 48 at a bargain price, I could think of no way I could go wrong on that boat, it looked perfect. Unfortunately it was a cored hull and most of the hull was saturated! it was only 7 years old. Fortunately I ran into the right person prior to offerring on that one.

There are many boats out there that have been for sale for a long time, the owners cling to still getting money out of them. But if you make a list, add it up (and I would double or triple that estimate) you find the boat should be free or maybe the owner could make payments to you for taking it. haha
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Old 20-02-2014, 14:14   #22
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Re: I give up!

You do the work yourself and you don't spent the money. I do all my own glass work, welding, electric and so on. Wet decks are not hard to fix either. A guy a few months ago swapped me a honda 2hp outboard to fix a 6' square section of his deck. I did the job in 8-10 hours over a 4 day peroid including nonskid.

And if you measure you boat by "money", or "how much you have into it" your missing the bigger picture.

If you restore your own boat your are left with skills, a free education, and a beautiful prize at the end of the journey. This is the difference between "crisiers", and voyagers.

Don't let anyone tell you restoring a boat is a waste of time.

It seperates the men from the boys.

You can't put a price on freedom, and your boat is just that.

Peace.
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Old 20-02-2014, 14:48   #23
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Re: I give up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesphere View Post
If you or anyone needs any advice or guidence just ask. I dont often visit cruiser forms but one of my readers sent me this link. Perhaps you just need someone to throw you a line?

Cheers
Just checked it out. Very cool ...
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Old 03-03-2014, 19:16   #24
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Re: I give up!

Don't give up ! It took me 22 years from buying to splash. It was all worth it.
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Old 03-03-2014, 21:18   #25
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Re: I give up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesphere View Post
Julian55, thanks for the kind words.

Unplugging and voyaging to the sea is the easy part. The hard part is battling a lifetime of programming and psychologically pulling the trigger on a new way of life. We voyage on under 8 grand a year. And I only paid 15k for my beautiful "Splendid" which fills my plate with freedom every day.

Sorry for the tough love, but I you cant find the strength to set your dreams in motion, perhaps you should give up? "Paradise" is a state of mind and resurved for the men who take it.

Think about the boat hard. You dont need crap like AIS and if your short handed get a good windvane and attach a small tiller pilot to it for light wind or motoring days.

Just a thought?

Peace.
wow a 40 Cheoy Lee for 15k now that is surely a fine "ketch"

I am sure the OP coming here , wanted to get a little bit of help from his friends, his fellow sailors. Sometimes when all is going against you, you need a little pat on the back , a word of encouragement.


Unfortunately its not all black and white and for some, a little help from my friends can go a long way.


If the OP is still reading our replies, in every project there is a wall an surmountable task an obstacle that cannot be mastered, a test of our resolve , sometimes it is better to take a step backwards and look at the entire picture. Look at your boat, and tackle one issue at a time.

I hope you will reconsider and show the project who is boss

Good luck
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:48   #26
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Re: I give up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesphere View Post
I find this post so sad. It's not hard to make sure your rig, hull, and sails are sound. Put some thought into your ground takle, and go.
The "American" concept of a "cruising" boat has been so polluted by sailing magazines and mega-boating outlets that most people have absolutely no clue of what a cruising boat is.
It's not about the boat, it's about your dreams, and abandoning your dreams is, well, quite unfortunate. I deal with people's cruising projects every day and every time I see someone give up it rings sadness in my heart.
Retink what you need to do on your boat and what is really important.

Peace

Sail far and live slowly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesphere View Post
Julian55, thanks for the kind words.

Unplugging and voyaging to the sea is the easy part. The hard part is battling a lifetime of programming and psychologically pulling the trigger on a new way of life. We voyage on under 8 grand a year. And I only paid 15k for my beautiful "Splendid" which fills my plate with freedom every day.

Sorry for the tough love, but I you cant find the strength to set your dreams in motion, perhaps you should give up? "Paradise" is a state of mind and resurved for the men who take it.

Think about the boat hard. You dont need crap like AIS and if your short handed get a good windvane and attach a small tiller pilot to it for light wind or motoring days.

Just a thought?

Peace.


I think there is safety gear and then there is over the top electronics. True, back in the 50s,60s and 70s, voyagers simply took off with a sextant and their wits. But remember there is much more traffic out there than ever. Although I do not yet have one, AIS is a great safety tool.
I'm a blue collar guy and I finally got out cruising. A few weeks ago on my blog, I outlined the very topic you are discussing...

Sterling Hayden once wrote:


“To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise, you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen who play with their boats at sea... "cruising" it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about.

"I've always wanted to sail to the south seas, but I can't afford it." What these men can't afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of "security." And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine - and before we know it our lives are gone.

What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense, and we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention for the sheer idiocy of the charade.

The years thunder by, The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed.

Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life? ”
Sterling Hayden, Wanderer




So what do you really need to go cruising? I have given this a lot of thought the last few days. Yes, I was struck with the dreaded boat envy. It’s a lot like drug addiction, really, you start chipping at Yachts.com and the next thing you know, your staying up till 2am. searching ad after ad. Then you find her…oh yes…Her, with a capital “H”. In my case a Fuji 45. What a beast! 30,000 lbs. 50 feet over-all, 12’ 6” beam. Enough room for me a horse or two. The thing was in Mexico and had the typical hard luck story which always sucks me in…Boat has been on the hard for 4 years, owners health is not good, engine is gone and although these boats can sell for $160,000+, this one is asking $35,000. Which means to me, a bit under $30K. In the end, a rebuilt engine and the usual suspects replaced and I’m looking at around a $50,000 boat and a year of disrupting my life traveling to Mexico to work on it. My problem is that I forget easily. I forget the pain my body is in, at my age, after doing what I like to describe as “boat yoga”. That is scrunching up in small spaces, in contorted, pretzel like poses, while holding a 9/16” wrench, hyper-extended over my head, in an upside-down position. Or trying to solder now that I wear bi-focals.
Oh lord…how did I get here? What possessed me to even think such terrible thoughts? Was it Karma? The pizza I had last night, or was it that nasty 5 year itch I get every so often to just screw things up? Joli` Elle, my Hallberg Rassy, Rasmus 35 has been a great little boat for me. Sweet lines, a good strong engine, wonderful hard dodger and lets not forget she has brought me 2000 miles so far since I re-fitted her. How could I? …I’m so ashamed.
If you see my little sloop in the anchorage in La Paz or in the marina here, the first thing one might notice is her size. She's a tiny dancer among the 45ft. to 65ft. yachts here. Not 25 years ago, she would have been considered a medium sized cruiser. 40 years ago, when conceived, she was very well considered a standard sized large cruiser. Today, not so. Most of the slips in any marina in Mexico start at 40 feet. Cruisers now a days consider a 42 foot boat as a standard. Sad really. But what does a cruiser really need? The ocean has not become larger. People haven’t grown larger (well, not most). But somehow smaller vessels are overlooked. My little ship started Hallberg Rassy. They built 760 of them. Basically launching the company into what they are today. One of the worlds finest and most trusted manufacturer.
In the 70’s all the harbors I visited had Pearson 35’s and 36’s. Cal 34’s, Rawson 30’s, Dreadnought and Westsail 32’s. These were the boat which launched 1000’s of cruising dreams. There was no GPS, AIS or WAAS. You may have had a RDF (radio detection finder), a sextant, a range finder or simply follow jet trails in the sky and relied on dead reckoning. Somehow most survived. Many sailing from California to Hawaii. In the 70’s came Sat Nav. The first GPS type navigation aid. It would spit out a fix every few hours if you were lucky and they cost a few thousand bucks. But now ocean voyagers could sail with much more confidence and yes, more folks took to the water. By the late 80’s the first true GPS was offered by Garmin, at a whopping $2500. Again, more people cruising and a higher dollar crowd. Thanks to the millions of GPS’s sold, they have dropped considerably but it has created a frenzy by cruisers to buy more electronics, interphased with one another.
Often times, it’s heard from people who have tricked out their boat with piles of electronics, that you need most of it. Paper charts?...please! No radar?...suicide. The unsuspecting new-comer’s are easily over-whelmed by such statements as gospel. Are they true? Think about it. I contend that I could throw a bottle with a note in it 20 miles offshore of California and if untouched, would make it somewhere in Mexico. I know this is a silly statement and I am trying to inject humor to make my point. The point is what do you really need? I would say, get your house in order first. With the Real Estate market as low as it is, buy now and eat Macaroni and cheese for a few years. Buy the worst house in the best neighborhood and when you think you can get enough rent to cover the mortgage, do that and move aboard a modest sailboat.
Great, now we get to talk about sailboats.Older sailboats are cheap. By cheap, I mean you can buy a bonafide 30' to 36' cruising sailboat for well under $12,000. Sure, it's bare bones but some of these designs and manufacturers have proven themselves over time. Saying boats are difficult to sell is an understatement. Take that Fuji 45. $35,000 and it still sits. Generally speaking what ever someone is asking for their boat, you can pretty much expect to get is for 10% less by offering 15% less. In other words if a skipper is asking $13,000 and you offer $11,000, you'll probably sail away for $12,000. The pictures below are a few craigslist ads I threw together. Good names, good designs and good prices.







So you see, one does not necessarily need a Benehuntalina 52.2-X for $350,000 to watch sunsets. Here is a La Paz sunset that you could be watch rather than waiting for your 401K to mature when you're too old to enjoy it.







No, that's not a screen saver. I took that picture with my little, old, funky Canon camera. You can too.
A young couple pulled into here a few weeks ago on a bare bones Cal 34 from Alaska...ALASKA! Do you know the seas and weather they went through to get to Southern California where it finally became warm for them? I can tell you that while they may fly back for work in Alaska, their boat is staying here in Mexico.
I'm not trying to be an advocate for zero electronics. I consider myself a progressive conservative. A little is enough and K.I.S.S. Keep it simple.
On Joli` Elle, I have a used Furuno GP30...$100. A handheld GPS from 1998 as a back up. A used radar...$300. A ham radio that is more of a hobby than necessity....$400, used of course. New, I bought a GPS/EPIRB. If something catastrophic happens, I have a chance of rescue. So I would say the more important items on your boat would be the sails and engine. Those will be your show stoppers on the journey...not your electronics. That said, it is a good time to stress a decent Surveyor. By good, I mean, not a paper pusher to write up that the fire extinguishers are out of date. You want one that will examine rigging, start the engine and prod around the chainplates. I would even recommend someone who has the same boat you're interested in and pick their brain for what to look for and what to expect.
My advice to you is go as soon as you possibly can but don't throw away your security. Continue to build a future to come back to. Work hard and play hard while you're young. Sail, make mistakes and make friends. And when you have the house rented out and the boat projects 50% done?...go cruising. Go then because I can tell you from personal experience that your boat will always have 50% left to finish. But at least you'll be cooking local fish on that funky BBQ, drinking cheap Mexican beer and watching the most beautiful sunsets you'll ever see. The world is your oyster and the distant shores await you.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:43   #27
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Re: I give up!

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expect.
My advice to you is go as soon as you possibly can but don't throw away your security. Continue to build a future to come back to. Work hard and play hard while you're young. Sail, make mistakes and make friends. And when you have the house rented out and the boat projects 50% done?...go cruising. Go then because I can tell you from personal experience that your boat will always have 50% left to finish. But at least you'll be cooking local fish on that funky BBQ, drinking cheap Mexican beer and watching the most beautiful sunsets you'll ever see. The world is your oyster and the distant shores await you.
Celestial, this was a wonderful post full of good advice.
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Old 30-03-2014, 14:37   #28
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Re: I give up!

Lots of great posts here which hit home with most of us who bought a boat and found the work to be more than we planned. My experience was a fine learning experience but am happy with the outcome. You either have to spend a lot of money for a "new" boat or buy something affordable and put the time and money in to make it yours.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:59   #29
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Re: I give up!

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Lots of great posts here which hit home with most of us who bought a boat and found the work to be more than we planned. My experience was a fine learning experience but am happy with the outcome. You either have to spend a lot of money for a "new" boat or buy something affordable and put the time and money in to make it yours.

Well said! I just brought my boat to the Yard to do some work on it. I think part of the problem with a sailboat is expense. I am at the only DIY yard here in Pinellas county Florida and believe me I am paying dearly for that priviledge and it is still cheaper then having them do it. I don't understand why the industry and Government only want the Affluent to sail but until I can get out of this country to a more reasonable country I am stuck paying way to much to get my boat into shape to leave.
746.00 just to pull and block it for ten days. still haven't bought a part or done a lick of work and I am already 750 in the hole.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:14   #30
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Re: I give up!

That's robbery, I would high tail it outta there and go elsewhere. Even if you have to drive 3 hours to get there you could save a ton of money. Did you look into other yards before hauling? Glades or green cove are the cheap DIY yards that cruisers flock to in Florida. But there are others, a common mistake is using what's close. Check green coves rates online, it will shock you. For that money you should get at least a month.
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