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Old 24-11-2012, 03:18   #1
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I Can't Sleep -- Reaching Rebel Heart Status

I am worried we are spending too much money, I am worried we are spending too much time, and I am worried about what I don't know what I am suppose to be worried about and don't know!

I am a planner and an organizer by nature. I set aside $20K above our outfitting budget (but didn't tell hubby). We now have only $5K left in that reserve. At the time, it seemed reasonable that we could do (and have) all the work done in two months -- we are now nearly three months into it and it looks like another 3-4 weeks (I did not budget for 'Island Time'). Add to that, everything I do not know and can not plan for and the result is I can not sleep!

Things have been going well but slow. Things needed more reparis than we anticipated. Ah you gotta love sailboats!
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Old 24-11-2012, 03:35   #2
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Re: I Can't Sleep -- Reaching Rebel Heart Status

It's so good is it not? You lay awake, tossing and turning, going over every possible scenario again and again. Then you go over the same thing again, going through all the likely conversations that you will have with the folks involved. Then, the next day eventually gets here and everything falls into place and gets done. Then, you think to yourself, why did i worry about that? it all happened and the worrying was a complete waste of time.

That night, you fall into bed, drop straight to sleep, then wake up and worry about the next set of problems. The answer? Dunno, but if you find it let us all know.

Coops.
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Old 24-11-2012, 03:40   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coops
It's so good is it not? You lay awake, tossing and turning, going over every possible scenario again and again. Then you go over the same thing again, going through all the likely conversations that you will have with the folks involved. Then, the next day eventually gets here and everything falls into place and gets done. Then, you think to yourself, why did i worry about that? it all happened and the worrying was a complete waste of time.

That night, you fall into bed, drop straight to sleep, then wake up and worry about the next set of problems. The answer? Dunno, but if you find it let us all know.

Coops.
I will definitely do that. In the mean time here is a nice photo of the sunrise!
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Old 24-11-2012, 03:51   #4
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Stop worrying, start sailing.
You can not fix everything. Is your boat watertight? Are sails and motor, if you need one, OK? go sailing. Change the perspective. Get a new things to worry about, inlets, tides, anchor drag.
When I bought my "big" boat, new sail covers were high on a list. They still there, 6 years after. However, I know I can put another year or two on them by stitching them together by hand while drifting "out there". Trust me, while "out there" things will change. What was important becomes no more.
Go sailing...
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Old 24-11-2012, 04:32   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyRu
Stop worrying, start sailing.
You can not fix everything. Is your boat watertight? Are sails and motor, if you need one, OK? go sailing. Change the perspective. Get a new things to worry about, inlets, tides, anchor drag.
When I bought my "big" boat, new sail covers were high on a list. They still there, 6 years after. However, I know I can put another year or two on them by stitching them together by hand while drifting "out there". Trust me, while "out there" things will change. What was important becomes no more.
Go sailing...
Our boat is watertight. Our sails were in their 'golden years' so we have replaced them and our using the old ones as spares. The standing rigging was at it's life expectency (pardon my spelling) so we are replacing it (even though we could have gotten another two years out of it). We have done (or is in process) the things we thought important for cruising. There have been things, like taking the mast down and seeing the track was damaged in the upper 1/3 (no wonder it was so hard to get the main sail up -- remember we had it in charter). There was damage to the Genoa furler, and reviewing it -- we wanted to upsize it from the 'charter configuration' There were a million other things we wanted to do, but tried to keep our focus on what we needed for cruising the Caribbean. We have had debates/struggles about many things one or the other of us has thought was important, but we have decided to let experience teach us what we need.

Hopefully sailing into the sunset mid December! Watch our blog, it will tell you the upgrades we did www.sailblogs.com/member/smartmoveadventures
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Old 24-11-2012, 05:00   #6
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Re: I Can't Sleep -- Reaching Rebel Heart Status

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartMove View Post
... At the time, it seemed reasonable that we could do (and have) all the work done in two months -- we are now nearly three months into it....
When I bought my catamaran, it took me a couple of days to make out my "boat list" of items which needed replacing or repairing. That list had 35 items on it and I put it into a spreadsheet. That was 2005.

Today, my 'spreadsheet' lists 332 items completed!!! Of the original 35 items..... 23 remain.

It's a boat..... there are always going to be things to fix and the bigger the boat, the more that breaks and needs fixing.

You just bought her and have yet to discover the real joys of boat ownership or the real meaning of cruising!!! You'll look back at this post someday and laugh....
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Old 24-11-2012, 05:43   #7
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Re: I Can't Sleep -- Reaching Rebel Heart Status

When planning any major boat repairs, overhauls or maintenance you have to remember Murphy's Law of the Sea.

Everything you plan takes twice as long and costs twice as much as you thought it would.

Maybe said in humor but it is amazing how accurate the concept is in real life. Have proved it to myself numerous times. I think two things are the main cause this doubling effect.

First, it is almost inevitable that in the process of fixing something on a boat, that in that process you will discover some related or connected system that also has to be repaired or replaced. Another variation on this, you find that if you replace something on a boat the new something is not compatible with the rest of that system so you have to replace all that as well.

The second, though usually smaller but still significant. You can never account for the cost for all the little stuff that adds up over time. The little stuff includes things like: caulk, sandpaper, many different kinds of paint (bottom pain, primer and paint for aluminum parts or steel parts, paint for fiberglass parts, paint and varnish for wood parts, etc, etc, etc), hoses, clamps, wire, nuts bolts and screws (generally stainless or bronze ie not cheap) and tools a whole category:

-special tools like the 18" screwdriver I had to buy to reach one last screw to get my head apart to replace the joker valve AND the shorty 9/16" combination wrench I had to buy to get a nut off the faucet in the back of the sink because nothing else in 4 tool boxes and two drawers full of tools would reach or fit. Take this and multiply.

- A collection of screw drivers and heads that in my younger days I could not imagine even existed. Just to list the more "common" ones: flat head, Phillips head, Frearson head and several other variations on the Phillips shape, Torx, square head, hex head, Robertson. Then you occasionally find something with an anti-tamper version of one of the above, usually in Torx. Then within the head types you have to have a range of sizes and lengths and even shapes like the 90 degree head screwdriver you have to use where you don't have room over the head of the screw to use a regular straight shaft tool.

- You can make a similar list for drill bits.

- Don't forget the cost to replace the tools that totally unassisted and on their own, figure out a way to jump overboard.


And don't try to fool Murphy by adding a fudge factor and doubling your original estimate on the real cost. If you do that then the cost and time will just double again.

Seriously, after doing this for forty years and three major boat overhauls I have reduced the Murphy effect to only 25% more than my cost and time estimate and feel pretty pleased with myself that I'm even that close.

Good luck and try to enjoy the process.
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Old 24-11-2012, 06:11   #8
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Re: I Can't Sleep -- Reaching Rebel Heart Status

The list never goes away, just changes with time. I try to discipline myself to do the critical things first that keep me out of the water and from getting underway. Everything else I can fix on the water eventually. That's why some people say cruising is fixing your boat in exotic ports around the world. From afar it looks like you are making good progress and have the end, or at least the departure from the dock, in sight.
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Old 24-11-2012, 06:21   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropic Cat

When I bought my catamaran, it took me a couple of days to make out my "boat list" of items which needed replacing or repairing. That list had 35 items on it and I put it into a spreadsheet. That was 2005.

Today, my 'spreadsheet' lists 332 items completed!!! Of the original 35 items..... 23 remain.

It's a boat..... there are always going to be things to fix and the bigger the boat, the more that breaks and needs fixing.

You just bought her and have yet to discover the real joys of boat ownership or the real meaning of cruising!!! You'll look back at this post someday and laugh....
We actually bought her in 2008, so we are well aware of what needs replace, updated, or added.
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Old 24-11-2012, 06:32   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac
When planning any major boat repairs, overhauls or maintenance you have to remember Murphy's Law of the Sea.

Everything you plan takes twice as long and costs twice as much as you thought it would.

Maybe said in humor but it is amazing how accurate the concept is in real life. Have proved it to myself numerous times. I think two things are the main cause this doubling effect.

First, it is almost inevitable that in the process of fixing something on a boat, that in that process you will discover some related or connected system that also has to be repaired or replaced. Another variation on this, you find that if you replace something on a boat the new something is not compatible with the rest of that system so you have to replace all that as well.

The second, though usually smaller but still significant. You can never account for the cost for all the little stuff that adds up over time. The little stuff includes things like: caulk, sandpaper, many different kinds of paint (bottom pain, primer and paint for aluminum parts or steel parts, paint for fiberglass parts, paint and varnish for wood parts, etc, etc, etc), hoses, clamps, wire, nuts bolts and screws (generally stainless or bronze ie not cheap) and tools a whole category:

-special tools like the 18" screwdriver I had to buy to reach one last screw to get my head apart to replace the joker valve AND the shorty 9/16" combination wrench I had to buy to get a nut off the faucet in the back of the sink because nothing else in 4 tool boxes and two drawers full of tools would reach or fit. Take this and multiply.

- A collection of screw drivers and heads that in my younger days I could not imagine even existed. Just to list the more "common" ones: flat head, Phillips head, Frearson head and several other variations on the Phillips shape, Torx, square head, hex head, Robertson. Then you occasionally find something with an anti-tamper version of one of the above, usually in Torx. Then within the head types you have to have a range of sizes and lengths and even shapes like the 90 degree head screwdriver you have to use where you don't have room over the head of the screw to use a regular straight shaft tool.

- You can make a similar list for drill bits.

- Don't forget the cost to replace the tools that totally unassisted and on their own, figure out a way to jump overboard.

And don't try to fool Murphy by adding a fudge factor and doubling your original estimate on the real cost. If you do that then the cost and time will just double again.

Seriously, after doing this for forty years and three major boat overhauls I have reduced the Murphy effect to only 25% more than my cost and time estimate and feel pretty pleased with myself that I'm even that close.

Good luck and try to enjoy the process.
RIGHT ON!!! This explains everything perfectly. Where were you when I was planning -- to clue me in -- 😙? Just kidding. I should have known better and planned better, after all this is not our first rodeo. Of course there were a lot of other things going on at the time -- transitioning our business, getting rid of a lot of stuff, dealing with real estate interests, the logistics of the move, etc.

We strive to meet your example, to get Murphy's aw to 25%! I just needed to vent a little. It is shocking to see the money exit your bank account so quickly though!
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Old 24-11-2012, 06:38   #11
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These threads on topics like this are pretty common I know, but they're so reassuring to me. I bought four screwdrivers and then had to buy one particular double-articulated ratchet (with a shallow depth socket) to remove one screw in the impeller housing on the genset. One day, even though I was very careful, I broke a strainer mounting bracket trying to get the lid off to clean it - one of those big Raritan clear ones, $250. A moment of greatest accomplishment over the past year was the time (around midnight as I recall) that the forward head was finally completely clean and fresh and the toilet flushed perfectly after a complete overhaul - the joker valve looked like a floppy tube it was so shot, like the finger of a rubber glove with the tip cut off. My list started with 8 items and we had the marina do four of them at the time of purchase. Now my list is at 108; 67 jobs are done (all by me except two), 41 jobs are still left.

It's so good to know I have company, its not my own incompetence or lack of efficiency or lack of discipline (well, at least not entirely). This is how it goes.
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Old 24-11-2012, 06:52   #12
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Re: I Can't Sleep -- Reaching Rebel Heart Status

Act!

Acting mitigates some of the worry. If you have time to worry, you are not tired enough with the day's work. Perhaps because you worried while you should have been working.

It is good to be a good planner, it is twice as good to be a hard worker.

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Old 24-11-2012, 06:52   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell
The list never goes away, just changes with time. I try to discipline myself to do the critical things first that keep me out of the water and from getting underway. Everything else I can fix on the water eventually. That's why some people say cruising is fixing your boat in exotic ports around the world. From afar it looks like you are making good progress and have the end, or at least the departure from the dock, in sight.
Yes, we have a similar list. I never expected us to get everything done. We have a prioritization list of things to do over time. I am just over-reacting, I want to be gone and in the end everything is being controlled by 'island time'!
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Old 01-12-2012, 00:57   #14
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Re: I Can't Sleep -- Reaching Rebel Heart Status

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Originally Posted by SmartMove View Post
I am worried we are spending too much money, I am worried we are spending too much time, and I am worried about what I don't know what I am suppose to be worried about and don't know!

I am a planner and an organizer by nature. I set aside $20K above our outfitting budget (but didn't tell hubby). We now have only $5K left in that reserve. At the time, it seemed reasonable that we could do (and have) all the work done in two months -- we are now nearly three months into it and it looks like another 3-4 weeks (I did not budget for 'Island Time'). Add to that, everything I do not know and can not plan for and the result is I can not sleep!

Things have been going well but slow. Things needed more reparis than we anticipated. Ah you gotta love sailboats!
Hi SmartMove
A week has passed since you originally posted and I hope you have managed to catch up on some sleep now. Are the mozzies annoying you less too? (And sorry for hijacking that thread for a little bit, I am not good at resisting temptation LOL).

It sounds like lots of expensive work is being done (eg new sails and rigging), so I imagine money is haemorrhaging . On the upside this major work will mean you have a greater chance of less hassle later. And yep, boat work always takes much longer than expected - the rule of thumb often repeated is that anything you think will take an hour will take a day, if you think it will take a day give it a week and for a week's task schedule a month. Saves a lot of frustration if you keep that in mind.

Anyway, hope you are on the water soon and enjoying some well earned R&R .
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:56   #15
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Re: I Can't Sleep -- Reaching Rebel Heart Status

I totally sympathise with you.

My boat has just started a major overhaul in order to be ready for my own great adventure.

Biggest problem, my boat is in southern UK, but I work in Norway - so I have to trust my Project Manager

I decided it was more effective to remain working and employ someone else to do the work - although I would much rather have done it myself. But this way I can at least continue to earn enough money to pay for the work! Provided his bills are less than I am earning (net) then all is well.

However, this last month has seen a rather large outgoing from the funds, so I may have to delay retirement for another couple of months.

I would much rather spend the money up front, than it all go wrong after I have started, and where repairs cost twice as much.
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