How often do yachts require rescue on crossings?

[denverd0n]

I think the main thing is that you cannot COUNT on being rescued, if you run into trouble. It seems like there are a few who go out with the attitude of... "Well, I don't really know what I'm doing, but what the heck! I have an EPIRB, so if there's a problem I'll just activate it and get rescued."

If that is you, then you are very likely to end up being one of those boats that just disappears, and no one has any idea what happened. Instead, you have to go with an attitude more like... "I am mentally and physically prepared to deal with anything that happens. I am on my own, and it is my own responsibility to get myself out of any trouble that I get into. I will carry an EPIRB, and maybe some other devices for calling for help, but in the end I will not count on others to rescue me if I have problems. Plan A will always be for me to rescue myself!"

Good luck.

[hellosailor]

And yet, divers still die. Apparently half of them still from out-of-air related incidents. And there are routine deaths resulting from alleged improper training, or failure to panic screen the students.

Still, there is no central mechanism for reporting, recording, or investigating diving deaths. Unlike fatal car accidents, where each state/nation tracks them. Same thing for boats lost or rescued at sea, all you will find are the USCG and similar records for rescues, to be collated from many sources and then still be incomplete.

The insurance industry actuaries must have some data at hand--but they don't share that, ever, with anyone.

Bottom line, you're still safer at sea than you are on the highway, and probably safer than you are in an airliner, where safety regulations are, literally, based on "cost per death" rather than on "how safe can we make it".

When and if you feel comfortable with your safety level, go. And remember that even the QE2 was hit by a rogue wave that broke in bridge windows something like nine decks above sea level. If Poseidon gets cranky or jealous and wants you and your boat? He takes it.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I think the scuba diving community, particularly the technical diving and cave diving community, have a refined and healthy attitude about this. I would summarize their attitude as being that:

1. Dives will be made only within the training, experience, and physical capabilities of the divers participating.
2. All risks will be fully understood and appreciated.
3. Unnecessary risks will be avoided even if small. In other words, the dive will be conducted in the safest possible way consistent with the objectives and circumstances of the dive.
4. Necessary risks will be mitigated to the extent feasible.

I think, overall, it's a healthy attitude. It doesn't leave people at the mercy of fear. It doesn't encourage excessive or blind risk-taking. It's a balance I strive for in anything where hazards are involved.

1-2% loss seems unacceptably high. 18th century ships had a loss rate of around 10% on Atlantic crossings. Seems with weather forecasting, modern navigation and communication systems, and diesel engines we could do far better.

Scuba diving is much more controlled than sailing and rightly so

You have to qualify etc and I believe you have to have a driver's card/qual just to get your tanks filled

Also, 10% seems low for shipwrecks in the 18th Century crossing the Atlantic

This link shows the shipwrecks along just the Outer Banks of North Carolina. Looks like quite a bit even though it spans many years, it's just one small area

https://www.google.com/search?biw=12...dxJIKbuNUtaWM:

[james247]

Originally Posted by Jammer

After reading some anecdotal reports and thinking on proper emergency equipment, I find myself wondering how often bluewater rescues become necessary.

Are there any statistics? Does anyone keep a list?

Are there thought to be any common themes that might serve as means to make sense of the contradictory choruses of "go now" and "be prepared?"

I've been sailing for 61 years and never been towed since I was 9 if your looking for statics

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by james247

I've been sailing for 61 years and never been towed since I was 9 if your looking for statics

That's the good thing about a sailboat, you really never need to be towed to get in unlike say a powerboat.....

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by thomm225

That's the good thing about a sailboat, you really never need to be towed to get in unlike say a powerboat.....

"Never" is a strong word, but yes at least you have an alternative mode of propulsion, but its not suitable for every situation.

Ive only taken a commercail tow once (boating since I was a kid...decades ago). Engine failed on a run up from Key West to Longboat Key. Winds very light, sailed up to just outside Longboat Pass and took a tow from there to a dock inside. Longboat pass is a bit interesting in a larger boat even under power...not feasible under sail.

Never been rescued. Thought I have assisted with several rescues.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Still, there is no central mechanism for reporting, recording, or investigating diving deaths.

Look up Divers Alert Network


Bottom line, you're still safer at sea than you are on the highway, and probably safer than you are in an airliner, where safety regulations are, literally, based on "cost per death" rather than on "how safe can we make it".

I would be willing to bet you are totally wrong on this statement wrt to offshore sailing.

Interestingly, while typing this an email from DAN arrived reminding me that it is time to renew membership.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

"Never" is a strong word, but yes at least you have an alternative mode of propulsion, but its not suitable for every situation.

Ive only taken a commercail tow once (boating since I was a kid...decades ago). Engine failed on a run up from Key West to Longboat Key. Winds very light, sailed up to just outside Longboat Pass and took a tow from there to a dock inside. Longboat pass is a bit interesting in a larger boat even under power...not feasible under sail.

Never been rescued. Thought I have assisted with several rescues.

In most situations on a sailboat, you can wait for the wind to come up and then sail in.

I did get towed in once on a sailboat though when I broke my carbon fiber mast. They towd me in when my Nacra F-17 still flipped over

Then if docking is a problem, you can anchor nearby and make a plan which is what I did recently when my outboard stopped pumping water and overheated.

After I sailed in (as far as possible) and anchored, I ended up being able to start the motor after it cooled and get the boat in the slip. I did leave the cover off though.

I've been towed in a few times on power boats mainly when I was in my teens. One time I lost a prop. I had used fish hooks to replace a broken sheer pin at the dock and they got sheered again offshore etc.......and it went from bad to worse working on it in the dark out there

Another time I borrowed a friends boat and it would not go back in gear 5 miles offshore. I tried to redo the connection linkage but being bent over working on it made me want to puke........due to the 2'-3' bay waves

Other times I was able to make repairs offshore. One time at an inlet on anchor.

The problem when anchored in the center of that inlet which was about 80' wide durng a strong outgoing tide into the Atlantic Ocean was a split fuel line that fed my 1970's era 4 stroke Homelite Bearcat 55hp Outboard. The exciting part was that the anchor bounced along the bottom for maybe 30 yards before it caught. This after the engine quit.

We were about to jump and swim for shore as we passed thru the inlet. Also a squall was coming in at the time and my parents had also called the Coast Guard since my brother was with me. It took hours to figure out the problem

We had no radio or lights, etc just a few rusty tools

[LakeSuperior]

The OP's question has been batted around since I joined CF 10 years ago. The problem is as hellosailor mentioned, there is not a good data collection mechanism for yacht sinking/abandonment at sea, that I am aware of. Several websites were started to track accidents along the way but I don't think they are very accurate.

The other question is how does one compare risk at sea to risk driving a automobile? One measure could be deaths per trip. However, counting a trip to the grocery store the same as an 500 mile road trip doesn't make sense.

Perhaps deaths per hour of participation would be a better measure.

A couple years ago three yachts disappeared in the North Atlantic (reported sinkings). With a little math and making up some numbers (ROMs) if there are 500 yachts crossing the North Atlantic per year then there is a 0.6 percent chance of not making it for whatever reason.

0.6 percent is equivalent to 600 yachts per 100,000 vanishing in the Atlantic per year. Compare this to about 4 gun murders per 100,000 or 20 drug overdose deaths per 100,000 in the USA. One can only conclude that ocean crossings should not be casual endeavors.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

The OP's question has been batted around since I joined CF 10 years ago. The problem is as hellosailor mentioned, there is not a good data collection mechanism for yacht sinking/abandonment at sea, that I am aware of. Several websites were started to track accidents along the way but I don't think they are very accurate.

The other question is how does one compare risk at sea to risk driving a automobile? One measure could be deaths per trip. However, counting a trip to the grocery store the same as an 500 mile road trip doesn't make sense.

Perhaps deaths per hour of participation would be a better measure.

A couple years ago three yachts disappeared in the North Atlantic (reported sinkings). With a little math and making up some numbers (ROMs) if there are 500 yachts crossing the North Atlantic per year then there is a 0.6 percent chance of not making it for whatever reason.

0.6 percent is equivalent to 600 yachts per 100,000 vanishing in the Atlantic per year. Compare this to about 4 gun murders per 100,000 or 20 drug overdose deaths per 100,000 in the USA. One can only conclude that ocean crossings should not be casual endeavors.

I don't remember where, but I read that about 3,500 yachts cross the Atlantic every year.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

I don't remember where, but I read that about 3,500 yachts cross the Atlantic every year.

I was thinking North Atlantic. On the northern route I was estimating 100 boats max. The southerly routes both directions maybe 400. The ARC is approximately 200 boats.

Make it 1000 crossings for a season and the statics are still bad, 300 out of 100,000 don't make it. That is 75 times higher than the gun murder rate in the US.

Your number may be an estimate for the number of sailors crossing.