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Old 13-09-2016, 09:21   #61
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

After over 300 weeks of taking out paying charters I only ran into this four times but they were four too many.
Ever heard of keel hauling?
If I had to do it over again I would have kicked them off immediately.
Most people are great but a few need a lesson.
By the way every bad experience happened when I gave extra by discounting or offering special services free of charge.
Those who expect something for nothing are the worse.
Don't let it make you bitter. I think that's what they want.

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Old 13-09-2016, 09:31   #62
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

I've had my boat, and I've been a deckhand (professionally) on other boats. Democracy on a boat is dangerous. Do what you're told, do it now. If the captain is wrong, get off the boat and find a different captain.

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Old 13-09-2016, 09:38   #63
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

Perhaps preface your trip with a rundown on the rules aboard ship. Everything is in a certain way for a reason. This is my home and it is important that we not break my home so when on the helm... Please take caution to follow instructions or perhaps let me know if you are uncomfortable with taking the position.

Perhaps explain the dangers of an unplanned gybe.

Help them to understand from the beginning that life aboard is different. And potentially in some cases of neglect... Dangerous.

Good luck with a better screening process in the future!
"A tourist remains an outsider throughout his visit; but a sailor is part of the local scene from the moment he arrives." -Anne Davison
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Old 13-09-2016, 09:39   #64
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

hamburking, over time you have mentioned most of the details of your story. But never mentioned where you are now in life that I recall. And the tone of your posting hasn't given any clue to this that I recall.

Alone is one thing, but sad is an entirely different state of being.

I'm sorry you find yourself there in this current chapter of life. My hope for you is to rise from the sadness first and find yourself back on your own boat second, if that's what you want and need.

Best of luck to you.
Life begins at the waters edge.
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Old 13-09-2016, 09:43   #65
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

This has been a very informative thread. I am new to sailing. Still have a lot to learn, although this seems to be a life-long learning sport! However, hearing about how crews should and shouldn't behave from the skipper's point of view is helpful. I know more about what is expected from a crew, which is how I want to get some more experience. A lot of what has been discussed about conduct I would have thought to be common sense and respect. I may have been brought up a little different than some of these folks. Although I try not to be judgmental (a bit trying at times tho!).
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Old 13-09-2016, 10:03   #66
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen View Post
I'm told I focus too much on what people have applied themselves to and accomplished and not enough on their potential usually by someone 1/3 my age.
Potential is dreams. Accomplishments are follow through. The younger you are the less I expect you to have accomplished. But there should be something. Show me you had the self discipline to accomplish a goal, or I'm afraid I'm going to have to just keep looking.
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Old 13-09-2016, 10:06   #67
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen View Post
How long had you known the drunken fool before casting off?

Some may find my vetting process elitist, but as a general rule I sit down and chat with prospective crew and captain recruiting.

I want to find out if the person has demonstrated any sense of discipline in life - it not, no thanks. In kids (younger than 35) from countries with good public education, if they didn't go to university and commit to something like a job or athletic sport - they better have good experience at something else. You could have served, took care of someone, worked a trade, etc. You can spot the free spirit nonsense puppies that think they love the sea without ever being off shore, and drift around with no discipline or ability to delay instant gratification.

Free spirits make good art and stories and are great solo adventurers. Lousy team makers and crew.
The drunken fool was the boat broker who sold us our Hunter. I needed assistance doing through hull replacements, so I basically gave him an all expense paid vacation to join me for two weeks in Spain. He claimed to be proficient in woodworking, yacht deliveries and mechanical stuff. All this turned out to be untrue, the guy was a complete fraud, a raging alcoholic and a complete jackass.

I had no idea. Next time I won't be so nice.
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Old 13-09-2016, 10:13   #68
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

If I were lucky enough to find an opportunity to sail as you have described, I would be more than grateful.

I would appreciate the opportunity to learn what would be expected of me in advance of the trip so that neither you or I would be disappointed.

I think the weekend trial would be a good idea. That and an open honest pre-sail conversation by both parties should solve all problems.

If you do take less experienced crew (me for instance) I would hope that you would be a little patient should I fail to preform perfectly at first and notice my improvement as we proceed,

No one host or guest should suffer abuse of any kind.
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Old 13-09-2016, 10:22   #69
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

I was invited to help a friend move his 30ft sailboat from tarpon springs FL to the keys.reason- I am a mechanic & have a tremendous amount of experience on power boats as I've lived on a lake all my life & have had many boats,just not sailboats. Planing to live on a sailboat in the future I jumped at the chance to I knew I had to accept him as skipper,no problem. ..we are motoring along in the fog... I say hey let's drop anchor it's foggy & this is not good...skipper says no worries mate will navigate by GPS! Thinking he knows better than I so ok ,,even though I was quite nervous. Well we motor along and then I hear the horn off the port bow. I'm driving so I say hey skipper hear that? He says no worries keep going. Then I hear the horn again this time Portside. Skipper says we're going by a channel marker with a proximity alert Beacon. I never heard of such a thing so I say ok. Then I hear the horn again this time Portside to the rear I'm thinking it's all good we just went by something that was stationary just like he said. Well the whole time the skipper was down below with the navigation table watching the chart and the GPS because we were crossing the channel coming out of tampa bay,,, then he says okay. He turned to come up the companionway I look down and I see his eyes are as big as saucers I looked behind me and I saw the rear end of a freighter going by I almost crapped myself!! We had motored right across the bow of a huge freighter and he was tapping his horn to let us know he was there. We never saw him. And we were almost run over. We would have been toothpicks! Thank God we had a radar signature thing on the top of the mast. At least he saw us and knew that we were crossing in front of him. The thing that scared me was that we never knew it was there. The point to this is that Captain risked my life without a doubt in my mind, but he was the skipper and I was doing what I was told. That's the way it is on the boat. The skipper is the captain this is not a democracy that will never work there has to be a leader. In that trip I learned some very valuable things. Some about sailing, some about the things that I want on my boat, like radar!! Also some about trusting one's own instincts. I go on to someone's boat with the upmost respect in appreciation that I am allowed to be there. But make no mistake even if I know the captain is wrong he is the one that's in charge if he makes a mistake like that then you know to get off of that boat when you can. That respect must go both ways. If the skipper can't trust me then he needs to toss my ass off the damn boat.. NF I believe the skipper is risking my life unnecessarily well then I'm going to get off that boat. And as far as someone being disrespectful ,,, captain needs to lay down the ground rules.. cuz I will put somebody off that boat in a hurry. Do not disrespect your captain. I'm sure he can find a plank for you to walk! And if he's nice there will be land on the other side. Think about that.
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Old 13-09-2016, 10:26   #70
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

guests are like fish, after a few days they begin to smell
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Old 13-09-2016, 10:31   #71
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
. .. If you do take less experienced crew (me for instance) I would hope that you would be a little patient should I fail to preform perfectly at first and notice my improvement as we proceed . . .
Speaking as a person who has had a lot of volunteer crew over the years --

Lack of experience is not necessarily a really bad thing, especially if you're completely honest about it up front.

There are a lot of things which need to be done on a boat on a long cruise, and you can always find lots of useful things to do.

What is really important is attitude, and eagerness to help out, and this is more important than experience.

The perfect crew in this regard is always cheerful, always positive, and is always trying to find something useful to do, not waiting to be asked. Particularly valuable is helping out with cleaning, maintenance, and repairs to the boat. Given a choice between a skillful sailor who can't fix anything, and doesn't want to, and a really handy guy who can't sail -- guess who I, like most boat owners, would choose? If you want to earn the undying love of the captain, let him find you scrubbing the deck or sewing up a torn piece of canvas, or fixing a chafed mainsheet, in the morning when he wakes up, although he never asked you to do it. Some of the other guys on here won't believe it, but the kind of crew I get REGULARLY do stuff like this.
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Old 13-09-2016, 10:48   #72
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

Skylark never has "guests" on board, only crew. Hence, eligible for flogging.

I got so tired of explaining how to tie a fender line to the guard rails, that I installed carabiners on all the fender lines.

Then I pose as such a "cranky" captain that no one dares to criticize or talk back.

...and I make everyone speak English, so I am sure that they aren't planning a mutiny.

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Old 13-09-2016, 16:10   #73
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

Originally Posted by SouthernPride View Post
How was the sex though ?
With foot odour in the pillow cases?
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Old 13-09-2016, 16:24   #74
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

I must apologize. I really love this forum. There are so many BS experts here and an equal number of truly great people. The group to which users fall into, I think, depends more on the day of the week than anything else. There are a few contributors that I actually follow because they seem so smart. But this thread just really got me going.

First, I feel sorry for the originator. No one has yet to tell him that they not only understand, but appreciate his frustration. I do feel his pain and at the same time have to think that he must be defective in some way. How could you possibly pick 20 people in a row, who are such a**holes. Even the laws of probability can't be that skewed.

Second, shame on most of us who are offering advice. Anyone over the age of 40 is directly responsible for the constant and uncontrollable decline is basic manners and general civility in our society. We all raised our children to have more and do better than we had. We allowed..perhaps even encouraged... them to be very independent and to make a point of expressing whatever dim-witted idea ran through their tiny little brains... and to pretend (1) that anyone cared, (2) that they were always going to be correct, (3) that they had some God-given right to even open their mouths in the presence of other. Most of us older fuds grew up with a different set of standards. I can tell you with all certainty, that if I pulled some of these things in front of my parents, my 89 year old mother would still be trying to pull my father's shoes our of my backside. My guess is that most who read my rantings can relate.

I have 3 college degrees. Not a single one qualifies me for much of anything. But one of them is a Masters in Human Resources, in which arena I worked for about 15 years. I hated virtually every minute of it for many of the same reasons that started this thread. I had no idea what a bunch of whinney, self-centered, bunch of infantile jerks we parents have raised. Unfortunately, I cannot put all the blame on teens and young adults. This statement applies to a goodly number of 30 and 40 year-olds, as well.

Almost everyone who has offered their opinions, has done so very kindly. But, almost every post should have started out with "What in the h*ll were you thinking?". The second line was voiced several times, but not nearly enough..."people just suck". Sadly, the way things are going, in 10 years, most of the potential boat guests will not only be rude and offensive, but it is quite likely that they will throw the foolish captain overboard and steal boat and all its crappy cookware.

I am sad when anyone has a bad boating experience. I suppose that I have been very fortunate with the people who have joined me. But, I have to divulge that I am a stinkpot. I can run my boat alone. So I do not need to depend on help from others, but almost without exception, my guests have shown up on cruise day with one or two bags of groceries, a cooler full of beer, or something to show that they appreciate being included. We don't go for more than a couple of days, but when things start out on a good foot, you at least have some time before things begin to smell.

Thanks to all who read this. Now I can wait another 2 or 3 years before I have to voice my opinion. The rest of you are great reading. 5 or 6 of you are welcome on my boat any day of the week.
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Old 13-09-2016, 16:43   #75
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
This summer I hosted for free (100%) a number of person to relief me from solo-sailing, for having company and conversation. Several nationalities, ages, and sex

No more then 2pxs on a 54', thus being 3 in total maximum

In 100% of cases (say 15pxs) I received Different (not the same...) criticism, for This or That, in disparaged order...

I mean, people seem dedicated to opinionated guessing, in many cases without any proper ground of experience. And a short-sighted reasoning.
Someone even pretended to decide on sleeping places affecting My Cabin...or where I keep tools or cooking ware...

For those few with a noticeable experience, it was the opposite, the comments were shooting too high, as coming from/after a 2m$ renovation (sic!) of a 86' old classic...

In spite of the total gratuity (meals, fuel, at times restaurants..all included) no one showed gratefulness in words, and usually leaving was a mutual relief. Even when I was left alone with 150nm ahead.

In 2 cases, I had to plainly and kindly ask people to leave at short convenience, and anyone took his/her own best time to do it (from days to one week later.... at a cost for me).

People want the "vacation", they don't care of work duties, want to stop here and there....have their own time schedules, their own standard for cleanliness, order, punctuality... usually all well misplaced on board (including the grand-dame spotting any stains but unable to brush the loo....).

Another complication? People buying a return ticket one month ahead, thus conditioning our cruising which I like to depend on weather allowances and my whims, not someone's tickets....

I speak of life aboard and social behaviour, since speaking about nautical skills would be hilarious.... people pretending 5 yrs boating yet unable to hitch a fender are the norm...
At helm? My AP is better, sure.
Orders? Are not listened to (at 3rd attempt, she was relieved from helm, and never touched it again)

All in all... a miserable experience, where I never heard the word "Sorry" even in front of damages, breakings, ruined /lost materials and gear. Thank you? Optional.

How many complained to me of the flight cost to reach me!? The majority, 2/3 at least...

I am honestly appaled.
A boat is someone's house first, would you go as a guest to a house saying that a table cloth is " disgusting", the sofa must switch position with the table, and cutlery should go in another cupboard.??

Incredible. I'm in awe of your patience and tolerance. If it was my boat, they'd be swimming home. If they were lucky.

"You CANNOT be serious!"

John McEnroe
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