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Old 13-09-2016, 07:02   #46
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

thunderbird..this story is exactly why i vet at the dock and at anchor. if they cannot handle it or if i am finding issue with personalities, i can ditch em. my last volunteer was schizophrenic. he spent all day trying to figure out why MY electrical system could/would not support HIS 10 amp hourly use computer so he could play video games all day and night. he talked to self constantly and made snarky comments. when i finally had witness to his endangering my boat i sent him away. after his departure i had to redo everything he touched as he was a saboteur of all my boat systems, including creating from a beautifullly repaired and functional lift pump--removed the spring..ok.. now i had leak and no pump. loving this person ..NOT..
so it took me a fulll 6 months to make my boat able to limp to a repair location 300 miles north and east of my former locale. so i hired mexicans to help me get the boat where it needed to go. no problem. BUT, the boat th eman wen tto after mine suddenly developed a fuel leak, and within 71 miles of port, exploded and burned to waterline.
always vet your travel companions before leaving. it could have been a kinda bitch being out in pacific ocean with a burning bird and a cat. some folks are just no tmeant to be your crew. under any circumstances. is not your fault. it is life and human beings. yes people suck. ha ha ha but we still deal with em, anyway.
i have met :
the cruise ship wannabe X4
couple from hell
sabotaging sammy(chuck)
drunken loony(patrick)
wakky willie
inept louie
clumsy harry
tippycanoe and fall in too
and passive aggressiveness in many of those who applied for job.

and then there were my first crew--they rocked and set the bar high.
and i cannot forget my opbs--one was good-- level headed and somewhat seaworthy--mcguyveresque, the other was a bit odd....

what can i say--have boat, will meet strange birds.
vet well and hope for the best.

my best crew would be the family who learned sailing via same family member. but they smart--too far away to be shanghai'd..ha h aha ha ha
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Old 13-09-2016, 07:25   #47
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

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Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming View Post
I think this is true for family and friends as well. The point is that by communicating expectation very early on, your guests will know expected behavior on your boat. "Please enjoy yourselves. I take a lot of pride and care in my boat, I love to share it with my friends. But please understand that this is my home. Respect goes a long way eh?"

Said with a warm smile.
Yeah right... Try that out on a drunken fool who just crapped his pants.

Let us know how it works out.
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Old 13-09-2016, 08:14   #48
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

For those seafood lovers amongst us, guests are like prawns, but after three days they go off.
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Old 13-09-2016, 08:27   #49
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

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Yeah right... Try that out on a drunken fool who just crapped his pants.

Let us know how it works out.

How long had you known the drunken fool before casting off?



Some may find my vetting process elitist, but as a general rule I sit down and chat with prospective crew and captain recruiting.

I want to find out if the person has demonstrated any sense of discipline in life - it not, no thanks. In kids (younger than 35) from countries with good public education, if they didn't go to university and commit to something like a job or athletic sport - they better have good experience at something else. You could have served, took care of someone, worked a trade, etc. You can spot the free spirit nonsense puppies that think they love the sea without ever being off shore, and drift around with no discipline or ability to delay instant gratification.

Free spirits make good art and stories and are great solo adventurers. Lousy team makers and crew.
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Old 13-09-2016, 08:34   #50
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

We seem to have found that 'basket of deplorables'....
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Old 13-09-2016, 08:46   #51
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

In all seriousness the worst lesson I learned re assembling a crew without considering whether someone is a racist shitbag.

About 30 years ago I sailed boat with an primarily Aussie crew, a Kiwi/naturalized American (myself), and an indigenous Taiwanese fella. Captain didn't notice until a week in a three week crossing that one of the Aussie guys with little experience was basically treating our Taiwanese fella like some paid deckhand/servant.

The Taiwanese guy didn't say much and didn't complain so it took a while for people to catch on. He was retired Taiwanese marine frogman (most are indigenous and not Han Taiwanese) and our young Aussie was fortunate his victim was so restrained.
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Old 13-09-2016, 08:59   #52
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

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How long had you known the drunken fool before casting off?

Some may find my vetting process elitist, but as a general rule I sit down and chat with prospective crew and captain recruiting.

I want to find out if the person has demonstrated any sense of discipline in life - it not, no thanks. In kids (younger than 35) from countries with good public education, if they didn't go to university and commit to something like a job or athletic sport - they better have good experience at something else. You could have served, took care of someone, worked a trade, etc. You can spot the free spirit nonsense puppies that think they love the sea without ever being off shore, and drift around with no discipline or ability to delay instant gratification.

Free spirits make good art and stories and are great solo adventurers. Lousy team makers and crew.
Why would anyone think that is "elitist"?

My approach is similar. It doesn't take much probing to discover whether the prospective crewman is lazy, a freeloader, a drunk, etc.

How could you go off sailing with someone, you had not interviewed, whose credentials you have not evaluated

I've hired a few thousand people during my career. With very, very rare exceptions, you can spot the problem people from a mile away. And they are the exception. 90% of real sailors -- people who have actually spent some time at sea and who are demonstrably interested in the sport -- are well-adjusted and able to work in a crew and get along.
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Old 13-09-2016, 09:01   #53
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

How was the sex though ?
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Old 13-09-2016, 09:08   #54
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

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Why would anyone think that is "elitist"?

My approach is similar. It doesn't take much probing to discover whether the prospective crewman is lazy, a freeloader, a drunk, etc.

How could you go off sailing with someone, you had not interviewed, whose credentials you have not evaluated

I've hired a few thousand people during my career. With very, very rare exceptions, you can spot the problem people from a mile away. And they are the exception. 90% of real sailors -- people who have actually spent some time at sea and who are demonstrably interested in the sport -- are well-adjusted and able to work in a crew and get along.
I'm told I focus too much on what people have applied themselves to and accomplished and not enough on their potential usually by someone 1/3 my age.
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Old 13-09-2016, 09:21   #55
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

Stay solo!

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Old 13-09-2016, 09:34   #56
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

Hey, I hear you. I went through the same thing. All my friends just wanted a boat ride, and to look like they owned a yacht, and treated me like I was a servant. One time, a guest tried to tell me there was plenty of depth ahead, and not to worry...how could a novice, with no idea of navigation, charts, depths, the area, etc. tell ME where its safe to go? Never a host gift. Always minor damage from selfish guests. Several times I had to save the day from total disaster...each of those would be a long, terrifying story.

Anyway, long story short, poorly behaved guests would not be asked back. So after a while, I was sailing alone. I found sailing all alone too lonely, so I sold my boat. Then my wife left me and took all my money. So now I've got no boat, no wife, no money, and I guess not much future. My plans of retiring in the caribbean on my yacht are down the toilet. I've never been so miserable, lonely and sad in my entire life.

So my advice...put up with the abuse. Better to have bad friends sailing with you than my miserable life now.
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Old 13-09-2016, 09:35   #57
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

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This is where the Wife and I differ, if I have people who act that way, I'm throwing them off the boat, nearest spot possible.
I am way too old for that stuff, I don't expect them to grovel, but I was brought up to say yes Mam and yes Sir and thank you, please and I expect the same, I don't get it, your gone.
Wife on the other hand would worry about Family, what would they they think for kicking Cousin George off on an island.
I don't care.


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Old 13-09-2016, 09:41   #58
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

ZBOSS, I agree. It's my responsibility to set the tone, lead, be gracious but clear of the expectations before and during. The "feel" of the cruise is set by me and generally people are good about it. If not then a gentle talk in order. I would say look in the mirror first. Yes there are idiots out there but I'd running into that many sounds like a management issue 😉
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Old 13-09-2016, 10:19   #59
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

Wow...

This sounds a bit like what my ex-FIL did as he single-handed around the world - except that in every case it was someone (me and my new wife included, other than that she hadn't sailed with him) who had sailed with him and his family extensively.

Crew paid a token amount daily, which didn't even cover food, and he paid all the rest.

It worked very well for him, and as far as I know, the px enjoyed their time(s in some cases) aboard.

OTOH...

If you've not sailed with them, voyaging or not, you're up against unknowns. We have a FAQ for potential guests aboard Flying Pig, as most folks not experienced cruisers wont have a clue how different and minimalist this is compared to shore life, let alone the safety and comfort issues.

And, FWIW, that FAQ was a product of having two grandchildren aboard for a month; it's not like we did it right the first time!

But a clear set of expectations, particularly with someone you've not sailed with before, is surely in order, and would be appreciated on the other side, too, as, if they foresaw it not being comfortable, they might bow out rather than come and make your life miserable.

As to bitching about air fares, it sounds like those folk were thinking in terms of paid crew rather than a-chance-to-go-voyaging folk.

But, the question posed really was about whether or not to take abuse. My answer would be no (we were a bit constrained in the grandkids situation, of course), but a clear set of expectations should have helped.

So, what actually was the situation? Long-term voyaging, and your needing crew is very different from friends coming to enjoy a sea cruise but knowing they'd be expected to pitch in to make stuff safe and sound...

L8R

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Old 13-09-2016, 10:19   #60
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Re: How Much Abuse do you Tolerate on Your Boat

Quote: "...and help without understanding a thing..."

Indeed! I don't quite understand why these matters are even the subject of discussion. Certainly all the navy-types on this forum are familiar with the convention that your do NOT "help", except when you are asked to do so and given specific direction as to how to give the help. When skipper gives and order - where I come from, with a "please" attached - the order is carried out promptly and proficiently and the crew member reports completion.

Skipper, on the other hand, does not ask ( or "order") a crew member do do anything that he, skipper, is not completely confident that the crew member knows how to do.

I'm very blunt about such things. On their coming aboard I tell lubbers "Please do not help in any way unless I ask you. Before I ask you to do anything, I will teach you how to do it." They get a "mini-lecture" about how this is necessary for the sake of everyone's safety.

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